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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhs27275 View Post
    The case centered on whether a law-abiding citizen could buy a gun he or she planned to sell to another law-abiding citizen. It arose when former police officer Bruce James Abramski purchased a Glock handgun so he could get a discounted law enforcement price, then "transferred the gun to his uncle in Pennsylvania."
    The breitbart article got one of the (most important) facts wrong. The guy bought the firearm with a check from his uncle. In other words, he went to the dealer and purchased the Glock through the law enforcement program, but paid for it with a check made out by his uncle. That is the problem. It clearly is a straw purchase, because he was not the ACTUAL purchaser of the firearm.

    Now, if he had purchased the firearm with his own money, then, sold it to his uncle, he would have been fine. It's a subtle nuance, but a very important one. There is no timeline for how long the firearm must be kept, and it was ultimately sent through an FFL.

    I think everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about this ruling, and frankly, it's spot on. Those of you worried about buying gifts, etc, need to relax. ATF form 4473 instructions for question 11a clearly state buying as a gift for someone else is fine. As long as you are the one filling out the form and paying with your own money, you are fine. Even if you turn around and sell it the next day. As long as you are not selling it to engage in sales for business purposes (i.e. - selling guns as a business), you are fine.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerberos View Post
    I think everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about this ruling, and frankly, it's spot on.
    I am not sure I would go that far, per Scalia's dissent
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
    Company I used to work for the past used to buy shotguns to give away in raffles. How will this affect that?
    It won't.
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  5. #124
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    Thanks Kerb,

    For the in-depth explanation and obvious omission by breitbart. Even truthsayer's pander to alarmism...


    Quote Originally Posted by Kerberos View Post
    The breitbart article got one of the (most important) facts wrong. The guy bought the firearm with a check from his uncle. In other words, he went to the dealer and purchased the Glock through the law enforcement program, but paid for it with a check made out by his uncle. That is the problem. It clearly is a straw purchase, because he was not the ACTUAL purchaser of the firearm.

    Now, if he had purchased the firearm with his own money, then, sold it to his uncle, he would have been fine. It's a subtle nuance, but a very important one. There is no timeline for how long the firearm must be kept, and it was ultimately sent through an FFL.

    I think everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about this ruling, and frankly, it's spot on. Those of you worried about buying gifts, etc, need to relax. ATF form 4473 instructions for question 11a clearly state buying as a gift for someone else is fine. As long as you are the one filling out the form and paying with your own money, you are fine. Even if you turn around and sell it the next day. As long as you are not selling it to engage in sales for business purposes (i.e. - selling guns as a business), you are fine.
    Last edited by SeaMac; 06-16-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamsuzukigsxr View Post
    This is BS. This is basically is leading to all firearms transactions being required to go thru an FFL dealer.
    No necause in this case both transactions went through an FFL. It was a ruling on intent and nothing else.
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  7. #126
    Senior Member teamsuzukigsxr's Avatar
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    I understand the circumstances involved. He basically did a straw purchase and lied on the form which is illegal. There are already laws in place for that. Other than taking advantage of a LEO discount, he went thru the required background check. His uncle also went thru the background check with his FFL dealer. They were worried about the transaction undercutting the governments background check system. Both men involved went thru the background checks. The firearm can still be traced to the current owner with ease in this particular case. I stated this ruling could lead to future laws requiring checks for all transactions. I understand this ruling was about intent. Lets hope this doesn't spur more nonsense with the gun grabbers. He could of just simply purchased the firearm with cash then sold it the next day to his uncle without getting caught. This just proves there will always be loopholes in the law.

    On another note, why didn't the FFL dealer simply deny the transaction and inform him it was illegal?
    Last edited by teamsuzukigsxr; 06-16-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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  8. #127
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    Massachusetts: Your Immediate Help Needed to Defeat Extreme Gun Control Bill

    From NRA ILA : NRA-ILA | Massachusetts Your Immediate Help Needed to Defeat Extreme Gun Control Bill

    Contact your state Representative TODAY!


    A radical anti-gun bill, House Bill 4121, was rammed through the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security in a rare, non-publicized electronic poll vote on Saturday, June 7. Floor debate in the Massachusetts House of Representatives could begin as early as this week, and your immediate assistance is needed to defeat HB 4121.

    HB 4121 is dangerous legislation that seeks to further strip away your Second Amendment rights in Massachusetts. As anyone who has gone through the process to legally obtain a firearm in Massachusetts knows, there is no dearth of existing state laws that regulate the sale, purchase and transfer of firearms. State legislators on Beacon Hill should be repealing gun control laws, NOT enacting more to further restrict your Second Amendment rights.

    This egregious bill would empower police chiefs with discretion in licensing owners for shotguns and rifles, ban the private sale of firearms except through a licensed gun dealer, grant authority to the state Attorney General to remove certain firearms from the approved “firearms roster” and require gun owners to provide a list of all firearms they currently own to the state with each renewal of their license.

    These requirements are only a few of the many onerous and deeply flawed provisions that penalize responsible gun owners and sportsmen in Massachusetts and could turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. Unfortunately, it seems as though the misguided Massachusetts General Court won’t stop until they have completely obliterated your rights. As we’ve seen in other states, such as New York, these controversial registration schemes begin the slide down a slippery slope toward eventual confiscation. Historical evidence clearly proves that gun registration enables gun confiscation, and criminals never register their firearms.

    HB 4121 was introduced less than three weeks ago by House Speaker Robert DeLeo (D-Winthrop), and it seems that he is attempting to quietly jam this legislation through the process without adequate time and opportunity for public comment.

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH; IT’S TIME TO TAKE A STAND! It is critical that you contact your state Representative today and tell him or her that you oppose these unconstitutional and unnecessary restrictions on your Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Urge your state Representative to vote AGAINST HB 4121.

    House Switchboard: 617-722-2000
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  9. #128
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    GOA Endorses Joe Carr in Tennessee GOP primary

    From : Gun Owners of America Endorses Joe Carr

    After rallying voters against House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) last week, on Monday, the Gun Owners of America (GOA) endorsed Joe Carr, a Tennessee state representative who is challenging Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) in the August 7th GOP primary.
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  10. #129
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    That'll be a tough election.
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  11. #130
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    Hillary: 2nd Amendment supporters are a minority that terrorizes Americans

    From : Hillary: Those Second Amendment Supporters Are a Minority Terrorizing Americans or Something - Katie Pavlich

    During a town hall style interview with CNN earlier this week, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and highly possible 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton essentially declared that those who support the Second Amendment and gun rights are in the minority. She also said they're terrorizing Americans.

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