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'Common Sense' gun ban for suspected terrorists isn't so common sense

2K views 10 replies 9 participants last post by  kansas 
#1 ·
Obama loves talking down to people, as if they are simpletons, using such parenting phrases as: "I don't understand why we can't do just this one little 'common sense' thing".

For one, he is lying because he has studied enough of the Constitution to know exactly why we can't do this one thing. But for another, it is hardly common sense.

I get it, there are bad guys out there and we have reasonable basis to believe they mean us harm. And in a 5 year old's logic, it is 'common sense' that we should not let them have guns ... except that grown up life is more complex.

1. By the time they are on the terrorist watch list, they are on our radar, they are likely being tailed and wire-tapped. I'm sure that the NSA is in their e-mail, in their phone, in their Facebook/Linked-In, so they know all their friends, they are monitoring their travel, they know their browser history and google search terms. And I'm sure their encrypted stuff is being read too. Bottom line, they are almost certainly going to get arrested before they manage to actually carry out an attack.

2. By announcing that the no fly list is on the no gun list, any Terrorist wanna be is going to make sure they either do a private sale, or use a straw purchaser. So we just lost the ability to have a NICS check pop an alarm, just in case the Feds did not know where this guy is or what he is doing. OK, that opens a separate can of worms about if NICS data should be used to track Terror watch list people, but we just lost the opportunity.

3. If a terrorist did not know we were on to him, and gets denied, we have just tipped out hand. That's not smart.

4. By allowing the terrorist to get guns, the magnitude of the crimes just increased, so there is more to charge him with.

5. Finally, if this is so common sense, then data would have to bear it out, right? That means someone has a list of all the bad guys on the terror watch list who bought guns and used them in crimes, such that if we had had this ban in place, they would have been stopped. Right? Is there any mass shooter that anyone can come up with who was on the terror watch list or the no-fly list? Any? San Bernardino wasn't - they bought through a straw purchase. Orlando wasn't, he was removed from the watch list. Sandy Hook wasn't. Dyllann Roof wasn't. Where is the data to support that this is truly 'common sense', and not just a hypothetical with no basis in fact?

The only way I can think this could really work, to accomplish anything the Feds can't accomplish today, is if you have so many people on the terror watch list that you cannot track them all. But if that is the case, then shame on Obama for not putting more people/money towards tracking known terrorists.

Net, the simplistic slogan that suspected terrorists should not have guns is all cute and fluffy. But the logic to say that denying them gun purchase would do anything to make us safer seems counter-productive.
 
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#2 ·
Art I agree with everything you say but I am more cynical regarding the why. The Progressive Dumbocrats believe if they get this piece of "common sense" legislation, which will not make us safer they have moved the ball on gun control. Additionally the Dems will not agree to adding any type of meaningful due process, redress is added. I fear the Repubs have already caved on this IMO it's just a matter of how much. I think the last Senate vote was within one vote.

If there is legislation it will not work and for the progressives will rally for additional "Common Sense" legislation. The progressives (Dems and Repubs) have been incrementally taking away individual liberty (mostly to make us safer, NOT) on a number of fronts and during the last nine years the increments have gotten more frequent and larger. The hair stands up on the back of my neck when a politician uses "common sense" or "comprehensive" in connection with any legislation.

The question that isn't asked enough in this instance is, would any of the proposed legislation have prevented or mitigated San Bernadino or Orlando. As I understand it the answer is NO.

:!:
 
#3 ·
Smurky,

I was only commenting on the no-gun list being dumb. I did not extend the post into 'why', and now I do not need to - because you nailed my feelings 100%. It is to get the ball rolling on gun control. And unfortunately, we are so distracted by our concerns over gun control, I think we are missing how to fight this.

If someone is on the 'No-Fly' list, or the terrorist watch list, why can't we just arrest them and put them in jail? This makes way more sense than just banning gun sales.

I dare you to say it is because that would violate their Constitutional rights.

I think a pro-gun congressman should propose putting terror watch list people in jail. Let the liberals start defending the constitution. I think we should all write our Congressman and ask them to sponsor such a bill.
 
#4 ·
I think a pro-gun congressman should propose putting terror watch list people in jail. Let the liberals start defending the constitution. I think we should all write our Congressman and ask them to sponsor such a bill.
Exactly, Jihadi correspondence, proclamations, and preaching must be considered a felony hate crime and/or conspiracy to commit murder under the law. Likewise, viewing or possessing Jihadi media must be prosecuted in the same light as child porn. Some things must not be afforded protection under the 1st Amendment.
 
#6 ·
I've already seen fellow gun owners starting to cave in. A friend of mine is a hunter (shotgun and bolt action) but does not have any AR style rifles. He has posted on facebook that he doesn't see why people really need 30 round magazines to defend themselves. :-x I quickly responded to his post, but he is still falling victim to the 'Libtard propaganda'.
 
#8 ·
How anti-American of him. Anyone who is falling into the herd and being swayed by the antifreedom speach is anti American in my opinion and needs to go back to grade school and attend remedial history lessons. No one "needs" a toaster that can cook 6 pieces of bread at the same time. No one "needs" a riding lawnmower. No one "needs" a corvette. It is our freedom as Americans to own these things. An AR-15 is no more dangerous then any of the aforementioned items but of course you guys all know that. Above all of that though it is most important to note that we ought to have the same right to own the firearms that those who are charged to protect us have (law enforcement). The 86 ban is bull*+^% in my opinion. If anything, SBRs and Suppressors should be completely deregulated and Autos should require the same process suppressors and SBRs do right now at the very most. Non gang related/ suicide related gun deaths are such a tiny blip on the radar that it is laughable (ridiculous) that they are being made into such a circus.

There is a cloud of ignorance being spread by the media that is akin to poison gas. People are being or already have been lulled into a false sense of security by big daddy government and won't know it's too late until it's too late. I pray that your Hunter friend never does find the need to defend himself with a semi automatic rifle. But if he does, it's as I said - too late.
 
#9 ·
If Obama were a king he would be the king of I told you this would happen. His approach to reform is making the USA a laughing stock of the world! His weak leadership has opened the door to cyber terrorism as well as domestic terrorism. Now he says I told you this would happen. So now he seeks to change the constitutional rights of all Americans. Just as his healthcare reform has screwed us all any legislation he proposes will only set us all back further. I will take this one step further and state that a vote for the democratic party that supports Hillary will only reinforce the desire to take away constitutional rights that so many have died for. Count me out I will not support their cause!
 
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