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  1. #11
    Senior Member Rangerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakerdude View Post
    Maybe it was just tears from losing to NC... I've been looking about having that done. I have one on a Beretta Neos, and I like it. Who should I send my slide to? Budget keeps me in the Burris Brand. I'd like to just Mail off the slide and buy everything from them, and have them mount it. Who should I go to gents?
    You don't have to send off your slide for mounting. The Five-Seven slide has a polymer cover over a metal slid and I do not think there is enough material to mill away for a direct mounting of the RD sight.

    However, if you go to FiveSevenRedDot.com, they offer a mount for RD sights that will replace your rear adjustable sight and attach in the same place and provide a platform to attach a RD sight. I have bought mine from there and it works well. Some have had some results of the additional mass causing feed issues, but not in all cases/user experience.

    It is worth checking out. BTW, it is the MKII version of the FiveSeven.
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  2. #12
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    I have the mount from FiveSevenRedDot for the Delta Point Pro. I had 1 or 2 hiccups early on for some reason, but the last several hundred rounds have been flawless.

    One item to consider is the weight of the red dot itself - there is a lot of range to the weights and you can research the differences online.

  3. #13
    CCC
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    Operator,

    I like your description of "point and shoot". My service pistol has such poor sights that I am basically just aiming down the back of the slide. But I can still qualify 249 of 250 on my range days.

    My eyes are going bad because of cancer treatments, and I'm finding it now impossible to get lenses that deal with both the sights and the target. Finding the front sight and letting the rest fall into place is working. So far.
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  5. #14
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    When coaching 4H youth shooting sporting clays, trap or skeet, we had them remove the sights (beads) on their shotguns, and ONLY focus on target - they got much better results that way. I know this flies in the face of NRA Bullseye - I've shot many a 2700 match - and top shots said focus on front sight, however, in real world self defense, you're not shooting at a stationary target at known, fixed distances. Look at target, be aware of muzzle orientation, press the trigger. I too wear graduated bifocals, and just focusing on the targets gets it done for me; even use this when shooting EoTech equipped ARs (ring becomes real fuzzy, but it works).

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54073 View Post
    Ok, been noticing a problem lately. I'm nearsighted. When my sights are clear, my target is a lil blurry. When my target is clear, the sights are blurry. I'm wearing progressive lenses, so half and up sees far off, and half and down sees up close. Man it's tough getting old. I've looked at optics, colored sights, I'm just not sure what to do.
    Seriously?

  7. #16
    Member Patriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Operator View Post
    It's not a function of age or visual acuity, it's simply that the human eye is a "camera" and as such relies on a combination of iris opening (f-stop) and eye muscle tension or relaxation to focus in a single plane, or extend the "depth of field" by closing down the "f-stop". This is why in bright light it's easier to achieve a sharp focus throughout a deeper "field." In dim light, just like a camera, the pupil must expand to let in more light - iris opens,and the depth of field correspondingly decreases so only a very shallow depth of field is possible.

    This is why aperture sights are superior in that they position the eye close behind a small opening that increases depth of field...of course handguns don't have aperture sights - generally.

    When shooting with open sights the proper technique is to focus on the front sight, letting the rear be slightly blurred and the target also blurred, while concentrating on maintaining an even and aligned sight picture. A small "orbit" of aligned sights across a target still equates to small impact dispersion. Misalignment between front and rear sights even if the front sight is anchored spot on, will result in a wide dispersion of shots.

    This is why scopes and "dot sights" have become prolific. Both create a "flat plane" illusion where the reticle or dot appears to be "out there" on the target. The problem with optical sights is slow target acquisition due to gun to eye misalignment during the process of mounting the gun. Obviously an optical scope or dot sight on a rifle is much faster to acquire which is why even today, outside the "play" arena, optical sights are simply not found on "combat" handguns. Considering that MOST handgun combat happens well inside 20 feet, even the "use" of sights of any kind is questionable based on human physiology. During the sudden adrenaline rush of a "fight or flight" response, all the training in the world cannot eliminate biologic response.

    This is why the very best "shootists" of every age utilize a technique known as "point shooting" or "stress-fire," "stress punch," "instinct shooting," etc., where the handgun is chosen primarily on that person's ability to rapidly "point" it at a target and have the bore axis oriented very closely with the spot the eye is focused on. This technique which is NOT currently "en vogue" relies on the fact that under stress human focus tends to narrow, fine muscle coordination disappears, replaced by brute force, "gross" motor strength...which is WHY super light triggers are NOT ideal on a true fighting handgun as opposed to range toys where people are competing only against watches and egos. People tend to "duck" or "crouch" and also often tend to draw and fire single-handed for an entire magazine...DESPITE all the countless hours some expert thought to train this out of them! Shooting single-handed allows much faster, and more nimble movement when exposed to a threat versus being "locked down" with a two-handed hold and all the little "purposeful movements" currently so popular amongst the competition/range crowd.

    "Stress-fire" technique is one of the few things I remember seeing Massad Ayoob do many years ago that made sense... Flexing the non-shooting arm up to "V" cover the upper portion of the torso with a thick, meaty, bone-filled arm, through which any bullet bound for the torso must almost assuredly pass before entering the relatively lightly armored chest. The gun is held and brought up single-handed, and this is in fact a very "natural" thing for humans to do when they are suddenly forced to defend while grabbing for their own gun.

    Properly taught and understood, "instinct shooting" at realistic combat distances is THE way to teach and to practice for a fast-happening, violent encounter. No wonder the FBI has not endorsed it. If one looks at EVERYTHING the FBI has stated as "dogma" for modern handgun combat, every scintilla is wrong. NOBODY needs a bullet capable of penetrating through a foot and a half of "something." and SUBSONIC bullets are PISS-POOR when it comes to transmitting any form of shock....with "transonic" speeds right behind in terms of piddling efficacy. SUPERSONIC bullet impacts are a KNOWN and proven "joy to behold!" SPEED is the essence of kinetic energy, with bullet mass being secondary, and bullet diameter being of almost worthless to mention importance. The proof? A .30-30 Winchester softpoint is a potent, one-shot stop on game animals under 200 pounds. An "original" Blackpowder loaded .45-70, 400 grain, subsonic load has little initial impact impressiveness...same holds true for handgun rounds. A .38 Special sucks, a .357 Magnum ....SAME EXACT BULLET, only with more power, NAILS game animals to the ground! The .44 Special round is anemic to say the least, yet pumped up to .44 Magnum...it DISINTEGRATES heads! NOTHING keeps coming with a disintegrated head! "Speed is death" when it comes to bullets of ALL calibers!

    If I "look at" the tiny light switch 20 feet away, and then bring my finger up to point at it, my "hand-eye coordination" is so precise that if my position could suddenly be frozen in time, a line drawn from my fingertip to the light switch would be SPOT ON! Despite the fact that BOTH open eyes are located some distance lateral to the "finger line." A properly fitted, and practiced with handgun will do the same. The only "problem" is that FEW modern handguns are actually BUILT for single-handed combat and so have overly bulky, or thick grips, and funky trigger reaches and engagement throws.

    It's worth pointing out that COLT owns the patents on three of the world's premier "point and shoot" handguns....the 1851 Navy Colt (just ask Wild Bill Hickok); the 1873 Colt SAA with 7.5" barrel, and of course, the Colt 1911 (yes I know J.M. Browning designed it). All of these pistols share the fact that they were designed and built when "hand gun" meant exactly that....ONE HAND, one gun in it. All deliver amazing "first shot" accuracy from any draw angle, and ALL have very short-throw, very crisp triggers that work in near-perfect harmony with their basic grip shape and size. An 1851 Navy Colt points EXACTLY like a human finger...the 1860 is nearly as good! The 1911 is BEST when equipped with MINIMAL sights....as in military sights that are tiny and provide just enough visual reference without forcing the eyes into some form of "combat" with the sights! Big blocky sights on an otherwise, flat auto-pistol slide are anathema to point shooting....

    Point shooting doesn't really require much training at all...(probably why nobody in the business of making money off of teaching people to stand upright and carefully focus on sights at a target inside 10 yards endorses such shooting technique!) Point shooting is as simple as "simply" starting with the finger to get an understanding of the technique, then inserting a pistol of choice to then start comparing where the "eyes" focused on where the MUZZLE ended up in that "instant" it took to bring the gun on-line. This is where a chamber laser is invaluable...and HIGHLY informative!

    Does ANYONE think that when Jessie James was riding a horse a full gallop, pointed his black powder revolver at some towns-person and pumped a .36 caliber ball dead center of the chest...think he was "aiming?" Like with his squinted EYE trying to line up the notch in the hammer with the little bead on the barrel while bucking up and down at 35 miles per hour? Really? All those who think he shot using "sights" please, go back to busting 1,000 caps down-range per week as you work on your two-handed, upright stance, totally NON-"survival" induced shooting technique out on the range. Jessie James hit the guy dead center because his eyes and hands form the most sophisticated "targeting system" EVER devised on planet Earth! Despite his body bucking up and down and his horse moving this way, then that, as long as Jessie's EYES were locked dead center on his target, his HAND....adjusted to put the barrel on target! No different at all than watching an Abrams tank bucking up and down while maintaining the gun tube perfectly "isolated" for an accurate shot!

    Anyway, didn't mean to get all techno-crazy about it, but the fact is, any handgun one carries into harm's way should be as bare of "BS enhancements" as the day it was born! Having said all this, I actually think the FN FiveseveN has rather excellent "point" characteristics...not as good as the 1911...certainly NEVER as good an an 1851 Navy....probably the most exquisite example of a gun that is a pure extension of a human finger, but I think FN has gone a masterful job of making the FsN a true "single-handed" pistol! The only real hindrance to the FiveseveN is the GIANT, oversize, super-blocky sights made for popping heads at 200 meters and beyond....remove the stilt-like sights and replace them with true...inside 20 feet "combat sights" which would mean TINY little protrusions, and the FiveseveN would be ideal in the up-close and personal arena!

    Very interesting.
    Patriot

    "God Bless our troops especially our snipers"

  8. #17
    Senior Member macman1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54073 View Post
    Ok, been noticing a problem lately. I'm nearsighted. When my sights are clear, my target is a lil blurry. When my target is clear, the sights are blurry. I'm wearing progressive lenses, so half and up sees far off, and half and down sees up close. Man it's tough getting old. I've looked at optics, colored sights, I'm just not sure what to do.

    I'm kinda in the same boat...The doc says I am getting cataracts and might need interocular sense replacement. But he said I'd see better than before!

  9. #18
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    Kinda, maybe....

    i had cataract surgery several years ago, up to that point I never needed glasses to read but I needed glasses to drive. Now it's the opposite.

    Also, be aware of "regrowth". It occurs in many patients after cataract surgery and requires YAG Laser surgery to correct it.

  10. #19
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    Yes, it is age related. When Operator get older he will see it too. Your eyes lose the ability to adjust the focus because the lens hardens. It is a *****. A set of single vision glasses that has a fixed rx midway between up close for reading and sharp distance focus work for me but with the progressive lens your head starts tilting back and forth as the front sight moves around and it is really hard to prevent as the head tilting is how you focus all the rest of the time. I am waiting for Sig to finally release their Romeo 1 reflex red dot as I think that with the built in low open sight and the 57's high existing sights that a co-witness can be had without an extra high front sight. I think that the Sig can with a little fabricating be mounted down into the plastic cover with a little cutting. A screw up could be fixed with a $20 replacement cover so it will be easy to be brave. (I have a new cover on hand already).

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