Debate, FiveseveN failure rate...

[jathtech]

made a blanket statement at Cabela's yesterday about FsN being FN's best pistol. The salesman behind the gun counter disagreed with me because he claimed he had seen them fail too many times.

I am hypothesising of course, but I imagine that there is good reason for this. Because of all of the FiveseveN's benefits, including mag capacity, low recoil, low weight, accuracy, etc... An advanced shooter is going to shoot several times more ammunition at the range than they would with a standard caliber firearm. Where a normal .45-9mm might go through ~ 150-200 rounds by the end of the day and feel done, possibly tired and worn out from the recoil, loading of magazines, and the weight of the weapon, the FiveseveN might afford the shooter to go through 5-600 rounds in the same session.

This would in turn increase the actual amount of carbon buildup in the weapon itself, resulting in more malfunctions at the end of the day (statistically). Especially with dirtier ammo.

What are your thoughts on this? I had a whole debate in the mirror with my english-accent self last night on the effects of the advanced characteristics of the weapon on malfunctions.

I imagine that this 500th round malfunctioning theory wouldn't effect short term combat reliability, rendering it a reliable and effective weapon for standard duty. Just when you've shot your 10th or 15th magazine, do a feild strip, clean-and-lube....

Thanks....

[Goatman]

Salesmen.... The next totally honest one will be the first...


First thing you need to do is prove the validity of the initial statement. How many is "too many" and what was the cause of the failure.

I personally don't believe that the 5.7 fails more than any other gun would. You would have to eliminate all other variables that would cause all weapons to fail (mis-use, not cleaning, etc) and then see if the numbers lied.

[Buffman]

Salesman, typically always are and always will be full of BS, typically firearms salesmen. Now granted I haven't put 500 rounds in one session through my gun, I put around 800 rounds through it in a three month period (specificaly 250 in a two day class, and then 200 rounds before, and a few hundred after), with no cleaning in between, and no issues. As Goatman says, what are these failures and what frequency do they occur. It's a combat pistol, and is just as reliable as Glock's and the likes..

[fd57]

We've put greater than 8K rounds through two five-seven pistols and nothing has broken or failed. We've not noticed any wear and tear that seems excessive or unusual. One pistol has been run with only SS197 and SS192. The other pistol has been run with only non-Federal ammunition. Both pistols look very similar with respect to wear. The round count is over a two year period.

The only thing we dislike about these pistols is the difficulty in obtaining parts (compared to Glocks, CZs, etc.).

[jhs27275]

I have one FsN that I have been shooting since 2006. It has not been cleaned since 2006. I put a little oil on the rails every now and then but that is it. I'm still waiting for it to fail or have it's first problem of any kind. It has seen nothing but factory ammo and still runs as it should. If and when it finally jams I'll break it down and give it a proper cleaning. Until that happens she might be dirty but she runs good.

A side note, the cleaning when I do it will probably take me a month just to get all of the casing particles out of the gun.

And salesmen lie.

[emptybrass]

Two words---- 5.7 Hater! I bet he has no experience with one.

[Visceral_Malice]

I think most issues with the Fiveseven are on the operator end. People don't take the time and learn to use it and get used to the fact that its built a little differently and that can cause issues. The lightness of it screws with everyone I let shoot it. The fs2000 has the same issue. People claim its unreliable, but its 99% operator error. I have never had an issue with either that wasn't my fault.

[jathtech]

This particular salesman doesn't make commission.

I am thinking that he probably is talking about a single particular FiveseveN that a friend owns. And if one is bad (regaurdless of the reason) they must all be crappy weapons right?

I told him I thought he was full of shit.

I know more about guns than 90% of the people working behind that counter do anyway.

[jhs27275]

I told him I thought he was full of shit.

And you still brought it to the forum.

Good move.

[rosiefn]

I think most issues with the Fiveseven are on the operator end. People don't take the time and learn to use it and get used to the fact that its built a little differently and that can cause issues. The lightness of it screws with everyone I let shoot it. The fs2000 has the same issue. People claim its unreliable, but its 99% operator error. I have never had an issue with either that wasn't my fault.

Visceral's comments are probably the only truth here. Understanding that the firearm is different and the ammunition is different play into user problems. Judgements made by sales personnel at Cabelas, no less, are meaningless, especially since the person buying same has already demonstrated an inept consumer profile by paying 20% more for the firearm. My question would be why would Cabelas still sell such a useless piece of yada yada--at least according to this "knowledgeable" salesperson.