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Thread: I have an unusual—okay, weird—question...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemonday View Post
    Perhaps I'm being dense, but I'm totally not following what he is saying here. Why would one lose a round (and create a sound signature which might not be good in certain situations) when we have the LCI and if all else fails the press check?
    In other words, if you're not sure if you have a round chambered, rack the slide and chamber a round. If one WAS in there and it goes flying, no biggie, you have others to fight with if you have a gun with decent capacity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepdogged View Post
    In other words, if you're not sure if you have a round chambered, rack the slide and chamber a round. If one WAS in there and it goes flying, no biggie, you have others to fight with if you have a gun with decent capacity.
    This is how I understood it, and this is why I can't see where this makes any sense especially given LCI and press check options. Why lose a round and telegraph your position with noise?

    Moreover, if we did indeed follow his advice don't we still have to check the LCI or perform a press check anyways to verify the racking successfully loaded a round in the chamber? So I'm not sure what his point really is.
    Last edited by Bluemonday; 05-28-2015 at 07:38 AM. Reason: typos

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemonday View Post
    This is how I understood it, and this is why I can't see where this makes any sense especially given LCI and press check options. Why lose a round and telegraph your position with noise?

    Moreover, if we did indeed follow his advice don't we still have to check the LCI or perform a press check anyways to verify the racking successfully loaded a round in the chamber? So I'm not sure what his point really is.
    You're reaching the point of over-analyzing the situation Blue. One of the most basic tenants of carrying a firearm is ALWAYS knowing the readiness condition of your weapon; LCIs, press-checks, and even cycling a round are simply additional tools to assist in that process during a panicked moment. We don't live in a Wild West frontier town, and we aren't going to be drawing down on each other in the middle of main street at high noon, so in the grand scheme of things, cycling a round isn't that big of an issue if you're absolutely unsure of the status of your weapon. Self-defense situations with firearms happen over many seconds, not milliseconds, and very rarely (and that phrase may be too generous in favor of the amount of times it will happen) will you find yourself in a situation where disengaging a safety or even cycling an unspent cartridge is going to negatively impact the outcome of the event, and if you do, you've very likely gotten yourself into a situation where you're well-and-properly screwed...whether you have a gun or not.

    Also (as an aside) unless you're stone-deaf, anyone who doesn't know the sound of their firearm chambering a round versus cycling an empty slide probably shouldn't own said firearm. The sound of a round sliding up the feed ramp and into the breach is distinct and definitive on pretty much every semi-automatic pistol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalis View Post
    You're reaching the point of over-analyzing the situation Blue. One of the most basic tenants of carrying a firearm is ALWAYS knowing the readiness condition of your weapon; LCIs, press-checks, and even cycling a round are simply additional tools to assist in that process during a panicked moment. We don't live in a Wild West frontier town, and we aren't going to be drawing down on each other in the middle of main street at high noon, so in the grand scheme of things, cycling a round isn't that big of an issue if you're absolutely unsure of the status of your weapon. Self-defense situations with firearms happen over many seconds, not milliseconds, and very rarely (and that phrase may be too generous in favor of the amount of times it will happen) will you find yourself in a situation where disengaging a safety or even cycling an unspent cartridge is going to negatively impact the outcome of the event, and if you do, you've very likely gotten yourself into a situation where you're well-and-properly screwed...whether you have a gun or not.

    Also (as an aside) unless you're stone-deaf, anyone who doesn't know the sound of their firearm chambering a round versus cycling an empty slide probably shouldn't own said firearm. The sound of a round sliding up the feed ramp and into the breach is distinct and definitive on pretty much every semi-automatic pistol.
    One more time: racking the slide to cycle a round does not solve the issue at hand, that the user is unsure if there's a round in the chamber.

    Manipulation 101: you still need to perform some sort of verification after racking the slide during the loading and unloading process: LCI, press check, drop the mag to see if there's one less cartridge, etc.

    The whole point is that racking the slide to ensure a round is chambered does not solve the problem and in fact costs you a round in the process.
    Last edited by Bluemonday; 05-28-2015 at 09:51 AM. Reason: typos

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemonday View Post
    One more time: racking the slide to cycle a round does not solve the issue at hand, that the user is unsure if there's a round in the chamber.

    Manipulation 101: you still need to perform some sort of verification after racking the slide during the loading and unloading process: LCI, press check, drop the mag to see if there's one less cartridge, etc.

    The whole point is that racking the slide to ensure a round is chambered does not solve the problem and in fact costs you a round in the process.
    One more time: Unless it is an unfamiliar weapon, you're deaf, or you're blind, a verification isn't necessary after cycling the weapon because you will either

    A) Visually watch the round move up the feed ramp to the chamber as you cycle the slide

    B) Feel the difference in vibration as the round chambers, or

    C) Hear the change in timbre and pitch indicating the presence of a round.

    If you're in constant fear of your firearm not chambering a round when you cycle the slide, either buy a more reliable firearm or sell it and stay away from them all together.
    Sheepdogged thanked this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalis View Post
    One more time: Unless it is an unfamiliar weapon, you're deaf, or you're blind, a verification isn't necessary after cycling the weapon because you will either

    A) Visually watch the round move up the feed ramp to the chamber as you cycle the slide
    Doesn't work in the dark and requires eyes down in the daylight.

    B) Feel the difference in vibration as the round chambers, or
    Not going to feel this under stress induced adrenaline rush.

    C) Hear the change in timbre and pitch indicating the presence of a round.
    Not going to hear this with stress induced auditory exclusion.

    If you're in constant fear of your firearm not chambering a round when you cycle the slide, either buy a more reliable firearm or sell it and stay away from them all together.
    There's a reason LCI's and press checks exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemonday View Post
    Doesn't work in the dark and requires eyes down in the daylight.



    Not going to feel this under stress induced adrenaline rush.



    Not going to hear this with stress induced auditory exclusion.



    There's a reason LCI's and press checks exist.
    So I'm to assume then that you stop and press or check the LCI every time you fire your weapon...just to make sure? After all, if it might just-so-happen to fail to chamber a round when you cycle the slide manually, then it's almost sure to fail to chamber a round on blowback, right???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalis View Post
    So I'm to assume then that you stop and press or check the LCI every time you fire your weapon...just to make sure? After all, if it might just-so-happen to fail to chamber a round when you cycle the slide manually, then it's almost sure to fail to chamber a round on blowback, right???
    Verifying a round is chambered or not occurs either during the administrative loading or unloading process, or upon taking custody of a firearm and you are checking its status.

    Just as we always verify an empty chamber after racking the slide during the unloading process, we also verify a loaded chamber after racking the slide during the loading process. Once holstered after loaded and chambered there's no more need to verify.

    If I have holstered a weapon that I verified is loaded and chambered, then I don't need to check it again when I draw to fire. If for some reason it fails to fire we then use an immediate action drill to bring back online.

  10. #29
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    Ok Bluemonday I have read over all of your comments and I have decided to respond to all of your comments in a single response. So that there is absolutely no chance of not knowing what I am referring to in your various comments, I will post your comment, followed by my response to each.

    Please take some guydol before reading any further, you're going to need it....

    ------------

    Your comment: Except for single action only handguns, the purpose of an external safety is to compensate for lack of proper training and regular practice.

    My response: You couldn't me more wrong if you had just come out and told everyone that the world in fact was as flat as the people in the 14th Century thought it was. A safety was incorporated in every weapon, civilian and military, to add a layer of protection against accidental and possibly fatal accidental discharges. Safeties on firearms started becoming commonplace in the late 1960's to help curb the problem of accidental discharges due to the high number of people being hurt. The purpose of an external safety has never been to compensate for lack of proper training or regular practice. The only thing that can compensate for lack of training and regular practice is.....wait for it......Proper Training AND Regular Practice. Whoever gave you this idea should have their head examined and should seek medical help for the head-in-rectum syndrome.

    Your comment: For example, I carry loaded and chambered AIWB using a quality kydex holster. In doing so I know that the first two of the aforementioned variables increase my risk, which is why I am solely dependent on the trigger finger as my safety. If I make a mistake, there's no fail safe.

    My response: Why even make this comment? Unless you're comment is meant to get people slobbering over you AIWB or kydex holster. Or maybe we are supposed to be in awe you actually carry your AIWB loaded and chambered? Chambered, that is funny what did you do grab a copy of the Gun Buzz Words Dictionary and go crazy with it?

    You comment: Now I've been a serious shooter for 25 years and taken over a 1,000 hours of formal training at the top schools and routinely practice dry and live fire and compete all the time, so I have proven ability to rely on my trigger finger. Other shooters may not be as confident in which case I would recommend more conventional IWB or even OWB carry until that shooter's skills reach a certain level. This should be achieved without reliance on an external safety.

    My response: You've been a serious shooter for 25 years? Really a whole 25 years with no breaks or time off? And you have over 1,000 hours of training at the top schools? Please sign me up for a Bluemonday Decoder Ring because you just became my newest and bestest hero. So tell me, did those top schools you describe include Harmony Church, New Hollywood, Parris Island, or some of the Navy or Chair Force schools? No? I didn't think so, because most military folks don't try to put themselves on a throne for everyone to kneel down in awe in front of. Most folks I know don't brag or try to make other folks feel as though they do not have a big enough unit between their legs so they are lacking. These civilian schools you think are TOP are probably bottom feeders that couldn't make it in military and started a training school for the mentally challenged civilians to pay a bunch of money for, only to get taught a moderate skill set bordering on incompetence. The problem with civilian schools, as they like to be called, is they teach just enough to make the average civilian think they are competent to handle a shoot out with every Hollywood bad guy to come on the silver screen.

    And if you or anyone else has taken over 1,000 hours of training at these schools, might I suggest you giving up firearms and going back to utilizing a Red Rider? No one on this planet needs 1,000 or more hours of training on any non-crew served weapons platform(see I can use those big buzz words too). Having a need to have that many training hours means you are not grasping the fundamentals and are more than likely a danger with any firearm and should therefore not handle them, in my opinion. Now to have over 1,000 hours practicing at the range with weapons is an entirely different situation. But if you were bragging about having over 1,000 hours of practice, good for you. I had what seemed like that in Basic, even though we didn't and more than that with my unit in Germany when we went to Wild Chicken and had to fire a whole warehouse full of Vietnam-era ammo.

    You also mentioned shooters being as confident as you. What are you a member of EGO-R-US? And how does confidence play a part in how you carry a concealed weapon? How it is carried is about comfort, ease of concealment, and ease of deployment. A persons skills have nothing to do with how they carry their weapons and for you to try and say it does shows you're lack of common sense. Where do you come up with this stuff? The term narcistic isn't even coming close to describing your comments. You need to get over yourself, you really do.

    Your comment: Regarding the LCI, I have actually converted from using the press check to relying on the LCI because I and others have discovered over time that with enough routine press checks we can damage the cartridge in three ways: a) the primer compound separates from the primer body causing FTF; b) the bullet actually pushes into the case reducing the OAL and increasing pressure; and c) this same bullet pushing into the case can cause slight bulging of the case.

    So how do we use the LCI? Well first off like any good Manipulation technique we want to use tactile feel not our eyes, whether to maintain eyes up awareness in the day or just to be able to perform the manipulation in the dark. If flush the chamber is unloaded, if protruding the chamber is loaded.

    After removing the ammunition source (magazine) and racking the slide during the unloading sequence, we feel to make sure the LCI is flush. If for some reason we must go beyond the LCI then we can always perform a press check since there's presumably no ammunition to damage.

    After inserting the ammunition source and racking the slide during the loading sequence, we feel to make sure the LCI is protruding before performing a reload with retention. If for some reason we must go beyond the LCI then we can always drop the magazine and look to see if there's one less round (eyes down in daytime) or perform a press check (dark).

    My response: Doing a press check that might hurt the cartridge? What are you using to check with, a sledge hammer? Let's put this another way, if you are using ammunition that is so cheaply made that you have to worry about harming the round by using your finger to press check, you sir have larger problems to worry about. Also, I doubt we really need you to give us a play by play of what happens when you push the trigger. Another attempt to make people feel stupid or just make yourself feel superior to others?

    Your comment: Hope this gives you some thoughts to consider.

    My response: Oh that line of comments does me allot of things to consider. First thing is how many of you type of folks there are in this world. People like you who think they are to be stood before in awe of their prowess and expertise. Based on what I have read and commented on so far, my D.I's would have chewed you up and spit you out. For that matter, Strong would have probably had you in tears. People that are smug and egotistic like yourself tend to alienate more people than they help. You obviously sound like a book smart person, not a street smart or people person. You also sound as though you might have held on to some apron strings a little to long. But let's move on shall we, you have so many more comments I need to respond to.

    Your comment: Perhaps I'm being dense, but I'm totally not following what he is saying here. Why would one lose a round (and create a sound signature which might not be good in certain situations) when we have the LCI and if all else fails the press check?

    My response: Please never start off a comment on here with the words "Perhaps I am dense", because people like me will grab that and run around the world with it. And Sound Signature? OMG you are asking for it with all of these buzz words.

    Your comment: This is how I understood it, and this is why I can't see where this makes any sense especially given LCI and press check options. Why lose a round and telegraph your position with noise?

    Moreover, if we did indeed follow his advice don't we still have to check the LCI or perform a press check anyways to verify the racking successfully loaded a round in the chamber? So I'm not sure what his point really is.

    My response: My little brother is right Blue, you are way past over-analyzing this thing. First off, in a combat situation, which any self defense situation is combat. If you have to check to see if you have a round in the chamber before engaging your target, you are doing it wrong and are probably about to be dead, so what's the point of checking to see if it is chambered? Anyone carrying an unloaded or un-chambered weapon is the reason the gene pool is in danger of becoming a sewer today. Only people wishing to visit the land of the recently deceased should carry an unloaded or un-chambered weapon.

    In a life or death situation, you do not have time to load or chamber a round, you barely have time to take the weapon off of safe. Ask any combat vet how many folks in their units went on patrol with an unloaded or un-chambered weapon. The comments and looks you will get will be priceless I promise. On that note, I promise you that a good 90% or higher have their weapons on safe to prevent accidental discharges. And I once again promise you that those vets have 100 times the training your 'top schools' have given you and they use safeties. Your point is not completely invalid.

    Your comment: One more time: racking the slide to cycle a round does not solve the issue at hand, that the user is unsure if there's a round in the chamber.

    Manipulation 101: you still need to perform some sort of verification after racking the slide during the loading and unloading process: LCI, press check, drop the mag to see if there's one less cartridge, etc.

    The whole point is that racking the slide to ensure a round is chambered does not solve the problem and in fact costs you a round in the process.

    My response: For the love of God and country, please explain to me how in the hell you can possibly cycle a weapon with a loaded mag in it and not have a round in the chamber(providing the weapon is undamaged and properly maintained)? First off if the weapon has been properly maintained, is undamaged AND has a loaded mag in it, you will have a round in the chamber after cycling it. If you don't, please stand up and just let the enemy shoot you, they have earned the right at that point.

    Back to my original stance, if you have to check to see if you're weapon has one in the chamber, you are doing it wrong and should not carry one.

    ----

    I choose not to respond to you're last couple of comment since my little brother did. You should work on your consistency in your opinions and comments. You have bounced around a bit on your comments. Also, please get away from whoever it is that has been 'teaching' you all of these years and find some military folks who actually can teach you a few things. Civilians, well they are civilians that wouldn't know shiite from shinola. I am really trying not to be a condescending prick here, but you asked for it by your know-it-all and better-than-thou attitude. I would recommend you speaking to some military folks on proper weapons handling and not rely on some bs you have read on the internet or watch on some dumb-as-hell youtube video by folks I wouldn't trust with a super soaker.

    Anyway that's my two and a half cents worth.

    P.S. - My wife says to tell you thanx for making her laugh with your comments and opinions. She really enjoyed it.
    Last edited by An Angry Hamster; 05-28-2015 at 02:01 PM.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Angry Hamster View Post
    Ok Bluemonday I have read over all of your comments and I have decided to respond to all of your comments in a single response. So that there is absolutely no chance of not knowing what I am referring to in your various comments, I will post your comment, followed by my response to each.

    Please take some guydol before reading any further, you're going to need it....

    Your comment: Except for single action only handguns, the purpose of an external safety is to compensate for lack of proper training and regular practice.

    My response: You couldn't me more wrong if you had just come out and told everyone that the world in fact was as flat as the people in the 14th Century thought it was. A safety was incorporated in every weapon, civilian and military, to add a layer of protection against accidental and possibly fatal accidental discharges. Safeties on firearms started becoming commonplace in the late 1960's to help curb the problem of accidental discharges due to the high number of people being hurt. The purpose of an external safety has never been to compensate for lack of proper training or regular practice. The only thing that can compensate for lack of training and regular practice is.....wait for it......Proper Training AND Regular Practice. Whoever gave you this idea should have their head examined and should seek medical help for the head-in-rectum syndrome.
    There is no such thing as a "fatal accidental discharge". What you are trying to speak of is a "negligent discharge" compounded by failure to point the muzzle in a safe direction resulting in a fatality (or serious injury).

    This has nothing to do with external safety levers and everything to do with inadequate training and practice.

    Your comment: For example, I carry loaded and chambered AIWB using a quality kydex holster. In doing so I know that the first two of the aforementioned variables increase my risk, which is why I am solely dependent on the trigger finger as my safety. If I make a mistake, there's no fail safe.

    My response: Why even make this comment? Unless you're comment is meant to get people slobbering over you AIWB or kydex holster. Or maybe we are supposed to be in awe you actually carry your AIWB loaded and chambered? Chambered, that is funny what did you do grab a copy of the Gun Buzz Words Dictionary and go crazy with it?
    A gun is either unloaded, loaded, or loaded and chambered. The point I made about AIWB carry had to do with illustrating the 3 variables of safety you neglected to quote.

    You comment: Now I've been a serious shooter for 25 years and taken over a 1,000 hours of formal training at the top schools and routinely practice dry and live fire and compete all the time, so I have proven ability to rely on my trigger finger. Other shooters may not be as confident in which case I would recommend more conventional IWB or even OWB carry until that shooter's skills reach a certain level. This should be achieved without reliance on an external safety.

    My response: You've been a serious shooter for 25 years? Really a whole 25 years with no breaks or time off? And you have over 1,000 hours of training at the top schools? Please sign me up for a Bluemonday Decoder Ring because you just became my newest and bestest hero. So tell me, did those top schools you describe include Harmony Church, New Hollywood, Parris Island, or some of the Navy or Chair Force schools? No? I didn't think so, because most military folks don't try to put themselves on a throne for everyone to kneel down in awe in front of. Most folks I know don't brag or try to make other folks feel as though they do not have a big enough unit between their legs so they are lacking. These civilian schools you think are TOP are probably bottom feeders that couldn't make it in military and started a training school for the mentally challenged civilians to pay a bunch of money for, only to get taught a moderate skill set bordering on incompetence. The problem with civilian schools, as they like to be called, is they teach just enough to make the average civilian think they are competent to handle a shoot out with every Hollywood bad guy to come on the silver screen.
    I'm sure the folks at Gunsite, Chapman Academy, Blackwater, Mid-South Insititute, Thunder Ranch, LFI, EAG etc etc would be happy to know you consider they couldn't make it in the military.

    And if you or anyone else has taken over 1,000 hours of training at these schools, might I suggest you giving up firearms and going back to utilizing a Red Rider? No one on this planet needs 1,000 or more hours of training on any non-crew served weapons platform(see I can use those big buzz words too). Having a need to have that many training hours means you are not grasping the fundamentals and are more than likely a danger with any firearm and should therefore not handle them, in my opinion. Now to have over 1,000 hours practicing at the range with weapons is an entirely different situation. But if you were bragging about having over 1,000 hours of practice, good for you. I had what seemed like that in Basic, even though we didn't and more than that with my unit in Germany when we went to Wild Chicken and had to fire a whole warehouse full of Vietnam-era ammo.

    You also mentioned shooters being as confident as you. What are you a member of EGO-R-US? And how does confidence play a part in how you carry a concealed weapon? How it is carried is about comfort, ease of concealment, and ease of deployment. A persons skills have nothing to do with how they carry their weapons and for you to try and say it does shows you're lack of common sense. Where do you come up with this stuff? The term narcistic isn't even coming close to describing your comments. You need to get over yourself, you really do.
    The 1,000 hours is not all square range and classroom time. Most of it is just a little more complex. Regardless, since you have a .mil background you should be very familiar with Brilliance in the Basics.

    Your comment: Regarding the LCI, I have actually converted from using the press check to relying on the LCI because I and others have discovered over time that with enough routine press checks we can damage the cartridge in three ways: a) the primer compound separates from the primer body causing FTF; b) the bullet actually pushes into the case reducing the OAL and increasing pressure; and c) this same bullet pushing into the case can cause slight bulging of the case.

    So how do we use the LCI? Well first off like any good Manipulation technique we want to use tactile feel not our eyes, whether to maintain eyes up awareness in the day or just to be able to perform the manipulation in the dark. If flush the chamber is unloaded, if protruding the chamber is loaded.

    After removing the ammunition source (magazine) and racking the slide during the unloading sequence, we feel to make sure the LCI is flush. If for some reason we must go beyond the LCI then we can always perform a press check since there's presumably no ammunition to damage.

    After inserting the ammunition source and racking the slide during the loading sequence, we feel to make sure the LCI is protruding before performing a reload with retention. If for some reason we must go beyond the LCI then we can always drop the magazine and look to see if there's one less round (eyes down in daytime) or perform a press check (dark).

    My response: Doing a press check that might hurt the cartridge? What are you using to check with, a sledge hammer? Let's put this another way, if you are using ammunition that is so cheaply made that you have to worry about harming the round by using your finger to press check, you sir have larger problems to worry about. Also, I doubt we really need you to give us a play by play of what happens when you push the trigger. Another attempt to make people feel stupid or just make yourself feel superior to others?
    Federal HST and Hornady Critical Defense is not what most folks would call cheaply made ammo. This is the very ammo where I have personally witnessed FTF and LEO's have documented this. The cause is from press checking as I explained.

    Your comment: Hope this gives you some thoughts to consider.

    My response: Oh that line of comments does me allot of things to consider. First thing is how many of you type of folks there are in this world. People like you who think they are to be stood before in awe of their prowess and expertise. Based on what I have read and commented on so far, my D.I's would have chewed you up and spit you out. For that matter, Strong would have probably had you in tears. People that are smug and egotistic like yourself tend to alienate more people than they help. You obviously sound like a book smart person, not a street smart or people person. You also sound as though you might have held on to some apron strings a little to long. But let's move on shall we, you have so many more comments I need to respond to.
    So now we get to the heart of your editorializing. You took my remarks as being smug and egotistical. Well frankly that interpretation is more of a reflection on you not on me.

    Your comment: Perhaps I'm being dense, but I'm totally not following what he is saying here. Why would one lose a round (and create a sound signature which might not be good in certain situations) when we have the LCI and if all else fails the press check?

    My response: Please never start off a comment on here with the words "Perhaps I am dense", because people like me will grab that and run around the world with it. And Sound Signature? OMG you are asking for it with all of these buzz words.
    Sorry my choice of words upsets you so much.

    Your comment: This is how I understood it, and this is why I can't see where this makes any sense especially given LCI and press check options. Why lose a round and telegraph your position with noise?

    Moreover, if we did indeed follow his advice don't we still have to check the LCI or perform a press check anyways to verify the racking successfully loaded a round in the chamber? So I'm not sure what his point really is.

    My response: My little brother is right Blue, you are way past over-analyzing this thing. First off, in a combat situation, which any self defense situation is combat. If you have to check to see if you have a round in the chamber before engaging your target, you are doing it wrong and are probably about to be dead, so what's the point of checking to see if it is chambered? Anyone carrying an unloaded or un-chambered weapon is the reason the gene pool is in danger of becoming a sewer today. Only people wishing to visit the land of the recently deceased should carry an unloaded or un-chambered weapon.

    In a life or death situation, you do not have time to load or chamber a round, you barely have time to take the weapon off of safe. Ask any combat vet how many folks in their units went on patrol with an unloaded or un-chambered weapon. The comments and looks you will get will be priceless I promise. On that note, I promise you that a good 90% or higher have their weapons on safe to prevent accidental discharges. And I once again promise you that those vets have 100 times the training your 'top schools' have given you and they use safeties. Your point is not completely invalid.
    I never said one needs to check their chamber before engaging a target.

    Regarding the safety again, I specifically prefaced my earlier remark that the context we were talking about was handguns other than single action. So if the handgun is single action or if we're talking about a different weapon system such as a primary weapons system (M4 for example), then the safety should be engaged.


    Your comment: One more time: racking the slide to cycle a round does not solve the issue at hand, that the user is unsure if there's a round in the chamber.

    Manipulation 101: you still need to perform some sort of verification after racking the slide during the loading and unloading process: LCI, press check, drop the mag to see if there's one less cartridge, etc.

    The whole point is that racking the slide to ensure a round is chambered does not solve the problem and in fact costs you a round in the process.

    My response: For the love of God and country, please explain to me how in the hell you can possibly cycle a weapon with a loaded mag in it and not have a round in the chamber(providing the weapon is undamaged and properly maintained)? First off if the weapon has been properly maintained, is undamaged AND has a loaded mag in it, you will have a round in the chamber after cycling it. If you don't, please stand up and just let the enemy shoot you, they have earned the right at that point.

    Back to my original stance, if you have to check to see if you're weapon has one in the chamber, you are doing it wrong and should not carry one.
    I've lost count of folks I have seen who racked a slide and the round never chambered. Why? Because they failed to seat the magazine during the loading process or they short stroked the slide. Happens all the time. Some folks just become complacent. Besides, I'm not sure I see the harm in using the LCI.

    ----

    I choose not to respond to you're last couple of comment since my little brother did. You should work on your consistency in your opinions and comments. You have bounced around a bit on your comments. Also, please get away from whoever it is that has been 'teaching' you all of these years and find some military folks who actually can teach you a few things. Civilians, well they are civilians that wouldn't know shiite from shinola. I am really trying not to be a condescending prick here, but you asked for it by your know-it-all and better-than-thou attitude. I would recommend you speaking to some military folks on proper weapons handling and not rely on some bs you have read on the internet or watch on some dumb-as-hell youtube video by folks I wouldn't trust with a super soaker.

    Anyway that's my two and a half cents worth.

    P.S. - My wife says to tell you thanx for making her laugh with your comments and opinions. She really enjoyed it.
    Thank you for not "trying not to be a condescending prick". I really don't care at all what you think, and look forward to the readers making up their own minds after reading our posts. LOL

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