It is hard to get any gun to group at 100yrds without a scope.
I bought a FN Ps90 a few weeks ago. I live in West Virginia. I have shot about 300 rounds through the gun and it has functioned perfectly. But I have a problem with the gun. I can get all of the rounds on a man sized target at 100 yds but I can not get any of them close enough to each other to call anything a group that I could zero it in with.This is the most inaccurate gun that I have ever shot. Are all of the Ps90s like this or did I just get a bad gun? Any help or advice from anyone who is familar with the Ps90 and how accurate it should be, will be greatly appricated. My preffered email address is firstname.lastname@example.org I look forward to hearing from any one that can help me. Johnray
It is hard to get any gun to group at 100yrds without a scope.
Tree, I do mean to sound arrogant,but it never has been for me and I have been shooting for 55 years now. I have seen guns just plain shoot poorly or that shoot any where from 3" groups up to 12" groups and when I get one like that I get rid of it.I was shooting off of a sand bag rest. If you are having trouble getting guns to shoot a group at 100 yds,you need to get rid of them and start looking for guns that are meant to shoot,not set in a gun safe. I have gotten most of my guns from people who were very unhappy with their new gun because it did shoot a good group or that they could not hit anything with it. They generally offer to sell the gun very cheap and I always buy these guns and I then go shoot them. I have gotten a few bad guns,but most of the time these guns shoot very well for me. Deer season is in here now and it will end next week and I will start hearing from some people that they missed a deer because of their gun and they are mad and they want to get rid of it.I buy some these guns if they have a good scope on it or if it is in a caliber that I want. When I go to shoot these guns,95% of them will be excellent. If they are not, I will at least have a good scope. After I shoot these guns, I will talk to the person that I got it from and I generally find out they have shot less than a box shells through them.That less than a box of shells generally includes the ones that they shot zeroing it in and the ones they missed one or more deer with.I can not explain this except to tell you that most of the guns that I shot,shoot very well. This Ps90 shoots so bad that the only way that it could of any value is to be shooting it at very close target and I do not need a gun like that. I bought a gun that has been marketed to shoot a trajectory out to two hundre yards and all of the reviewers always commented on how incridibily accurate that they were. What I got and what every body else got was a really good marketing campain by FN so that they could sell alot of expensive guns very quickly. FN will never get any more of my money. Johnray
I have gotten 1.5 inch groups of five at 100 meters. That was with an after-market scope and some trigger work.
With the factory optics and trigger I remeber getting 50 rounds in a 12 inch group.
My point is this. You can take any gun that is capable of shooting sub MOA at 100 yards and put a unmagnified or dot scope on it and it is going to very difficult, no matter how many years you have been shooting, to get a sub MOA at 100. You need magnification to get that kind of accuracy.
Anyone who has been shooting for that long should know that.
I haven't been back out to the 50/100 yard outdoor range since I sighted my EOTECH. I have only shot my new PS90 two times. The last time was a week ago at an indoor range.
But, I got a 1/2 inch group of 3 rounds at 50 yards using my Eotech. It was the only target I was able to keep, so its all I can say for now. This was on a sandbag rest (on the bottom of the gun, NOT usinb the barrel as a rest)
The EOTech's center 1 MOA red dot coupled with a stable base should allow the weapon to attain decent precision out to 100 yd, certainly much better than the factory reflex sights would allow!
Hey Tree, I hope you relize that we're still talking about a tool that was designed to be a sub-machine gun and in a lot of instances a replacement of a pistol. The PS/P90 system was never designed to be sniper rifle, optics or not. I've fired plenty of MP5's on burst and full auto that shot fine groups at 25 and 50 yards. I have even taken down steel plates at 100 with them. But they are not a sniper rifle and should not be considered as a sub-MOA weapon. I a shooter that is getting better than average groups, 2 inches or so, at 100 yrads is doing pretty well with that weapon.
And by the way, I've shot plenty of MOA groups with iron sights. Toys don't make the warrior. Training, experience, commom sense, and heart do.
Well, I am still waiting for my PS90 (not available here atm), but I shoot many other guns, when I have time to do so (at least twice a month).
I usually shoot in the indoor range at 25 or 50 Meters, which is quite easy to get good results with almost any gun.
When I shoot at the outdoor range, i usually shoot my SIG 550 (Standard military issued here) with Ironsights at 300 Meters, and I usually group within 10cm (about 4 inches). I also have other rifles I shoot at these distances, and some only have Ironsoghts. Surely, I can't shoot my M82 with Ironsights only, but that is another type of weapon.
As far as it goes for me, any gun I have, should reach some point of accuracy.
- Pistols and Revolvers: at least 4 Inch groupings at 50 Meters
- Submachine Guns: 4 to 6 Inch groupings at 100 Meters
- Assault Rifles: 2 to 4 Inch groupings at 150 - 200 Meters
- Swiss Army Issue Rifles: 4 Inch groupings at 300 Meters
- Sniper and Precision Rifles: 1 to 2 Inch groups at 300 Meters, decent groups at 600 Meters and more.
- .50 BMG: 4 to 10 Inch groups at 1200 Meters.
That's what I expect from my weapons, and therefor, I usually select them carefully.
Any kind of aiming aid on a Pistol, Submachine Gun, or Assault Rifle, is only to help you to get faster on your target, but never to get better results with your groupings. It's just an aid, but you still habe to aim yourself.
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
(Unter Waffen schweigen die Gesetze)
.50BMG - 685 Grains of pure Diplomacy!
My first time out with my PS90 was in a coworker's back yard in the county. The targets were in the shade down low with some tall grass in front. I was using the stock sight with a makeshift illuminator consisting of a red Photon Microlight. At 43 yards, from a rest, shooting about 100 rounds of SS195LF my 5 shot groups were about 5 inches with a best of 3 inches. I wasn't too worried about accuracy since it was my first time, but I did hope for better. I really learned to dislike the standard Ring Sight that day.
Last weekend I went to a real outdoor range. I had a 2x20 Compact ACOG with the red crosshair mounted on the PS90. Shooting 200+ rounds of SS195LF from a rest my average 50 yard, 5 shot group measured from center to center with no called fliers was 2 inches. The best group was 5/8 of an inch.
Considering what the rifle was designed for this is acceptable to me.
I think I can do better with practice. I haven't done much rifle shooting. I think a lighter trigger would help too.
You can't take the sky from me.