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Thread: MAC FNH 509 Gauntlet Test

  1. #61
    Senior Member FS2KSTD's Avatar
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by vz58kid
    Ur wrong again! The Quote is from a top notch comp. that makes the marine cups! So admit U don't know Squat about the subject and be gone there Jethro!
    I think you just made his point for him.

    He said you don't seem to have opinions of your own, but like to cite the words of others without attribution -- which is, by definition, PLAGIARISM. And if that's not sufficient, you insult or try to abuse anyone who doesn't agree with you.

    A lot of folks here don't agree with you. Wonder why?
    Last edited by WaltSherrill; 06-18-2017 at 04:03 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESTER View Post
    No! and since your a highly educated man I suggest you read your owners manual where it states ​warning! The weather and shooting conditions that expose yourpistol to dirt, moisture, salt or sand can affect the function of your firearm.

    Armegedon gun plus armegedon ammo problem solved lmfao

    kiddo help me out please bro I just want to survive!
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  5. #64
    Senior Member sirgilligan's Avatar
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    Once again I am reminded of why I do not post much on the Forum. I used to be a regular and the personal attacks and the arguing that has to be waded through to find a meaningful comment. I still love my FN SCAR and my Hi-Powers, and would not mind discussing them more often, but it seems I do not understand the goal of this forum nor that of the moderators.

    For the sake of civility I often learn how to use terms that are misused without criticizing the person because the discussion is more important. For instance, I do not care if someone calls a magazine a clip, or a revolver a pistol, or if a person uses the term hydro-lock to describe the idea that the water is not compressing or escaping a striker channel.

    It is too bad that I come back and find such behavior. Good day.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltSherrill View Post
    I think you just made his point for him.

    He said you don't seem to have opinions of your own, but like to cite the words of others without attribution -- which is, by definition, PLAGIARISM. And if that's not sufficient, you insult or try to abuse anyone who doesn't agree with you.

    A lot of folks here don't agree with you. Wonder why?

    Some people don't believe Hydro-Lock term can be used for gun issues and or that Marine Cups solve it.

    https://suarezinternational.com/suar...e-spring-cups/
    No Plagiarism but simply used their ad for the product!

    Three points about this thread which got people mad!

    1) 509 is a POS.
    2) Hydro-Lock is a legitimate term.
    3) Gaps between frame and slide allow to much junk in gun, causing malfunctions as Mac even said 3 X in last few vids!

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    Here lies Lester Moore. Four slugs from a .44. No Les. No More.
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  7. #66
    Senior Member Kakashi66218's Avatar
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    Last thing, promiss.

    First things first.
    I had no knowledge of anything that was in this 509 video, just watched it after reading Walt's post. You know kid, MAC could possibly get a "cease and desist" order for the gauntlet, thanks to trolls like you Kid. Now, I don't know if that's what you want... to ruin your own fun.... VZ58kid. Would you be happier if MAC gauntlet stops for just you, IF it bothers the firearms industry as a whole or part.

    I could care less if the term you or anyone else used was automotive, I can do my part to be the change I want to see in the world, andpoint it out. I hardly think Tim is to blame as the word is misused previously, everywhere just like the word "racist."

    I bet Tim, MAC, and company, works hard to keep his/their relationship positive with the firearms industry. Maybe the firearms industry finds fixable flaws in his tests, IDK. When I watched earlier videos and this one, and without quoting Tim he says something to the effect that in this video what you see is for entertainment, take what you want from it. That's usually a CYA statement for legalities and prolly means he likes doing what he is doing so long as it's watched by people who don't take it seriously. I'm guessing and don't really know for sure but this is prolly so they don't shut the gauntlet down on him. I enjoy them as much as anyone else, so keep them coming and don't get bent over the outcomes.

    As far as SirGilligan, it's a bummer to see you leave, but I ain't stopping you, but FYI you're playing into the hands of the trolls. I'm suprised you are unaware, Kid has a reputation for discord and it permeates just about every thread here, and stops now. I live in/for conflict, I understand other don't like conflict. I get it. If trolls have their way, it would be deny members the forum. I enjoy this forum and won't hesitate to stand up for another member had they been treated harshly. I do not represent any portion of the members of this forum, or the management-- but should you go that's your choice, not ours.
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  8. #67
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    Okay, vz58kid... let's take each of your points and address them:

    Quote Originally Posted by vzkid58
    Some people don't believe Hydro-Lock term can be used for gun issues and or that Marine Cups solve it.

    https://suarezinternational.com/suar...e-spring-cups/
    No Plagiarism but simply used their ad for the product!
    I - We don't know that the problem seen in the MAC video was due to hydro-lock. We only know that the MAC tester called it that. He could have blamed it on the Red Kangaroo or an Act of God, given the evidence he offered. (He didn't tell us that he had field or detail stripped the weapon after the problem, or that he had any reason to call it what he did. He just pulled that from where the sun doesn't shine, which allowed him to act like an expert on the 'net.) For all we know, the malfunction might've been caused by particulate matter that kept the striker from moving -- rather than Hydro-Lock. But you accepted his claim that it was hydro-lock without question.

    II - Plagariasm as shown on the ABOUT.COM web site is defined as "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own." You didnt tell us that you copied that definition from another source, but just threw it out in an effort to put another responder down. It was presented as YOUR information. Had you said, "Here's a description of how marine cups work I found on the 'net at..." there would have been no complaints. While I don't think you were trying to be deceptive in your presentation, the person who responded to you claiming plagiarism was just giving back the type of abuse that you've been giving out, yourself. Except that he was technically correct.

    You went on to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by vz58kid
    Three points about this thread which got people mad!

    1) 509 is a POS.
    2) Hydro-Lock is a legitimate term.
    3) Gaps between frame and slide allow to much junk in gun, causing malfunctions as Mac even said 3 X in last few vids!
    I don't think they were mad about the points listed above as much as how you presented your info and your free-wheeling use of name calling, abuse, and put-downs. You interpreted the test results without a lot of analysis.

    III - Whether the FN-509 is a POS remains to be seen. It may have problems or it may simply have behaved in those tests as most guns behave. You note that at least three guns in recent tests had similar problems. It may be that the test itself is flawed.

    I will note that the person doing the testing clearly demonstrates problems with his test methodology, in his analysis of problems encountered, and in how he described those problems. He also showed us that he didn't understand how that sort of malfunction should be cleared with the weapon being tested -- which indicates a very limited knowledge of the gun's design. You obviously saw no problems with his efforts, which make me question your competence to act as a judge when discussing these topics.

    IV - Hydro-Lock is a legitimate term, but we have no reason to believe that HYDRO-LOCK caused the issue identified. Had the tester, after he stopped the test, bothered to field or detail strip the weapon, to see what was causing the malfunction, we might know whether or not it was even a possible factor.

    I'd argue that it was far more likely that dirt in the mechanism was keeping the striker from being released. (Had the striker been released but didn't travel as it should, as would have happened with Hydro-Lock, resetting the trigger manually -- as the tester did -- could not have reset the striker. The striker clearly had not been released -- and was likely jammed by dirt or sand. The fact that you accepted the MAC tester's assessment without question shows that you aren't quite as savvy as you think.

    V - Gaps between frame and slide may allow too much junk into the gun. But it may be, too, that the materials that he let seep into the gun was uniquely inappropriate for that sort of test. Then too, his method of clearing the weapon after a jam -- swishing it in water that had a lot of dirt in suspension -- was more likely to cause problems than clear or prevent them.

    Do we know that guns with narrower gaps behave differently when dunked in mud and rinsed in muddy water. Muddy water doesn't need a big gap to get into a gun. (The slide/frame gap is just one of many areas where suspended crud can get into the internal mechanism of the slide or frame. (If you've disassembled the slide or frame of an FNS gun, which is similar to the FN-509, you'll know that there are a lot of places where crap can get into the slide or frame -- like the rear of the slide, around the barrel, the ejection port and chamber, and around the magazine.

    VI - Finally, if HYDRO-LOCK (point IV, above) was the cause of the malfunction, why does gap width even matter? Clean water and air alone could have caused Hydro-Lock. Then to, the problem that the Glock marine cups were designed to address may have been for a problem unique to the Glock striker assembly design -- we don't know that HYDRO-LOCK is necessarily an issue or a problem with other guns. We also don't know, as I stated above, that Hydro-lock had anything to do with the problems encountered in the FN-509 test or the other gun tests where similar issues were seen. That was just a name attached to a syndrome -- a collection of symptoms -- and not a real diagnosis based on any kind of in-depth study or analysis.

    You're very critical of responses to your statements, but didn't make any effort to apply any type of critical analysis to the test itself or the tester's conclusions.

    Maybe you are NOT a TROLL. Most of the trolls I've encountered in my many years of internet forum discussion tend to be as unpleasant as you are, but most of them seem to have a better grasp of the subjects they're addressing.
    Last edited by WaltSherrill; 06-21-2017 at 08:28 AM.

  9. #68
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    I don't have a dog in this fight, but regardless of the make and model of the gun, these tests are unrealistic. What is the next one, running over them with a D9 Caterpillar?

  10. #69
    Junior Member Jaysway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I don't have a dog in this fight, but regardless of the make and model of the gun, these tests are unrealistic. What is the next one, running over them with a D9 Caterpillar?
    Already done. Worked fine after a trigger reset.

  11. #70
    Junior Member impactbumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltSherrill View Post
    Okay, vz58kid... let's take each of your points and address them:



    I - We don't know that the problem seen in the MAC video was due to hydro-lock. We only know that the MAC tester called it that. He could have blamed it on the Red Kangaroo or an Act of God, given the evidence he offered. (He didn't tell us that he had field or detail stripped the weapon after the problem, or that he had any reason to call it what he did. He just pulled that from where the sun doesn't shine, which allowed him to act like an expert on the 'net.) For all we know, the malfunction might've been caused by particulate matter that kept the striker from moving -- rather than Hydro-Lock. But you accepted his claim that it was hydro-lock without question.

    II - Plagariasm as shown on the ABOUT.COM web site is defined as "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own." You didnt tell us that you copied that definition from another source, but just threw it out in an effort to put another responder down. It was presented as YOUR information. Had you said, "Here's a description of how marine cups work I found on the 'net at..." there would have been no complaints. While I don't think you were trying to be deceptive in your presentation, the person who responded to you claiming plagiarism was just giving back the type of abuse that you've been giving out, yourself. Except that he was technically correct.

    You went on to say:



    I don't think they were mad about the points listed above as much as how you presented your info and your free-wheeling use of name calling, abuse, and put-downs. You interpreted the test results without a lot of analysis.

    III - Whether the FN-509 is a POS remains to be seen. It may have problems or it may simply have behaved in those tests as most guns behave. You note that at least three guns in recent tests had similar problems. It may be that the test itself is flawed.

    I will note that the person doing the testing clearly demonstrates problems with his test methodology, in his analysis of problems encountered, and in how he described those problems. He also showed us that he didn't understand how that sort of malfunction should be cleared with the weapon being tested -- which indicates a very limited knowledge of the gun's design. You obviously saw no problems with his efforts, which make me question your competence to act as a judge when discussing these topics.

    IV - Hydro-Lock is a legitimate term, but we have no reason to believe that HYDRO-LOCK caused the issue identified. Had the tester, after he stopped the test, bothered to field or detail strip the weapon, to see what was causing the malfunction, we might know whether or not it was even a possible factor.

    I'd argue that it was far more likely that dirt in the mechanism was keeping the striker from being released. (Had the striker been released but didn't travel as it should, as would have happened with Hydro-Lock, resetting the trigger manually -- as the tester did -- could not have reset the striker. The striker clearly had not been released -- and was likely jammed by dirt or sand. The fact that you accepted the MAC tester's assessment without question shows that you aren't quite as savvy as you think.

    V - Gaps between frame and slide may allow too much junk into the gun. But it may be, too, that the materials that he let seep into the gun was uniquely inappropriate for that sort of test. Then too, his method of clearing the weapon after a jam -- swishing it in water that had a lot of dirt in suspension -- was more likely to cause problems than clear or prevent them.

    Do we know that guns with narrower gaps behave differently when dunked in mud and rinsed in muddy water. Muddy water doesn't need a big gap to get into a gun. (The slide/frame gap is just one of many areas where suspended crud can get into the internal mechanism of the slide or frame. (If you've disassembled the slide or frame of an FNS gun, which is similar to the FN-509, you'll know that there are a lot of places where crap can get into the slide or frame -- like the rear of the slide, around the barrel, the ejection port and chamber, and around the magazine.

    VI - Finally, if HYDRO-LOCK (point IV, above) was the cause of the malfunction, why does gap width even matter? Clean water and air alone could have caused Hydro-Lock. Then to, the problem that the Glock marine cups were designed to address may have been for a problem unique to the Glock striker assembly design -- we don't know that HYDRO-LOCK is necessarily an issue or a problem with other guns. We also don't know, as I stated above, that Hydro-lock had anything to do with the problems encountered in the FN-509 test or the other gun tests where similar issues were seen. That was just a name attached to a syndrome -- a collection of symptoms -- and not a real diagnosis based on any kind of in-depth study or analysis.

    You're very critical of responses to your statements, but didn't make any effort to apply any type of critical analysis to the test itself or the tester's conclusions.

    Maybe you are NOT a TROLL. Most of the trolls I've encountered in my many years of internet forum discussion tend to be as unpleasant as you are, but most of them seem to have a better grasp of the subjects they're addressing.
    Couldn't have said it better, Sir! Thanks


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