Ammunition Pressure Discussion

[Visceral_Malice]

SHUT UP!



I felt a personal attack was due. As a matter of fact, EVERYBODY can shut up.

j/k.

On the serious side, contract these guys to fire some of EA's stuff.

HP White :: Home


this way all you guys (generally speaking) will know what exactly is going on.

An attack on my persons?! How dare you, sir!

I'd be interested on getting some various 5.7 ammo to these guys for testing. I'd love to see more detailed information than the brassfetcher tests. Maybe we could start a forum donation to make this happen?

[HK SD9 Tactical]

OK, first things firts. As Sony indicated, you use "we", "our", "us" and never "I", "me", "my", ect.... Who am I talking to. Is it an individual? Company with many individuals? A committee that gets together and ask these questions? Or is it just you?

I you are a company, my consultation fees run in the thousands of dollars.

Sweet. We were unaware of that. However, we've worked with folks using the RSI products and they've not yet indicated any regrets or issues with RSI's line. In your work did you find inconsistencies that caused alarm using RSI's products?

I never stated that I used RSI products. I investigated the purchase of their product but after discussions between many principles and myself, I determined that RSI could not provide the accuracy that I was needing so I chose not to purchase their product, because I could not adequately isolate the necessary components to eliminate spurious readings, along with other deficiencies. There are many well known users of RSI - Remington Arms, Savage Arms, FBI, ... but to what extent they use RSI components is not published i.e., they may not be using the pressure trace or shooting lab hardware and/or software components. I may eventually look again at purchasing their product but only if I can utilize it with a pizorestive pressure barrel. It is a good product if it is utilized correctly but that does not negate the fact that strain guages are inherently inaccurate due to outside influencing factors.

There are a lot of people utilizing strain gages within the munitions field. If it's widely known that strain gages have a weakness/require attention to detail in order to obtain accurate and meaningful results, would you agree that a responsible party would institute the testing methodology to at least meet if not exceed the requirements and mitigate the difficult areas?

I would agree if the "party" in question in well versed in the utilization of the strain guage and has sufficient knowledge and understanding to mitigate the deficiencies.

Agreed, if the pressure build and spike goes beyond the critical point. But this depends on a number of variables, including powder, ambient temperature, barrel composition, length of barrel, etc. etc. etc.

Yes there are many variables to be considered and taken into account. And you need to identify what you consider the "critical point".

By the way as a side note, we are looking forward to Summer for some hot Summer days now. For testing purposes

I hope that you (us, our, we, whatever) will add to the general knowledge pool with your findings.

Maybe we misunderstood? But when you stated "And people claim that they have fired thousands of rounds with no problems....come back to me and tell me that at 10 MILLION or even 1 MILLION rounds with no problems." we took your words to mean 10 million or 1 million of the _same_ round, not different loads and calibers. IE, 10M or 1M of SS192, SS197, ProtecTOR, etc. So if you did not mean of the same round, disregard our reply.

No, I did mean of the same type of ammuniton (or round if you prefer), not necessarily in the same firearms though. The major ammo manufacturers have been using some tried and true formulas for many years and have sold untold millions of the same rounds that have been fired, albeit, from different firearms, but the permiss still stands, a few hundred or thousand rounds of any single type of ammunition fired is not a broad enough base for an A+ rating of approval.

Oh no, that was our qualifier, so that you or anyone would not feel a personal attack or that we work for EA or love EA products. Due to the nature of postings of late regarding EA products it seemed a qualifer was in order.

Glad you clarified that.

That if anywhere in your post your comments could be viewed as pro-EA products or question anyone who is anti-EA products then you must be a fanboy.

Alot of my comments are pro EA as far as their products not related to ammunition or their business practices are concerned. But I am certainly not a 'fanboy' - the term which is overly used to describe anyone who has an affinity to someone or something. I like living, so I gues in this case, I can be considered a 'fanboy' of life.

Here's a thought, view it as rhetorical or devil's advocate or a point to ponder: Do you think any responsible entity (company, individual, group of individuals) would not take steps to mitigation their exposure to a liability law suit here in the United States? Especially if that entity was working with a product that demanded attention to detail, precision, and accuracy? And perhaps even more so if that entity had at least one verified failure already documented? We mention this only because it seems likely that if Company X had a failure in their past then said company would take steps to learn from that experience as well as not repeat it. This point to poinder could possibly apply to EA, for those that have said there was at least one documented kaboom from an EA round years back. It would seem quite illogical and irresponsible to continue on from that experience without making responsible changes. Even more so if you're a small business, family owned/operated, with a family. Because irresponsibility could result in a very negative life change.

What is your point? You yourself posted "we do not work for nor have any association with EA except for a customer relationship, wherein we have purchased some of the EA products" and from what I have been able to ascertain from your post on the other forum is that you do alot of testing on various projectiles (although this is an assumption on my part). So please come clean and tell 'us' exactly what you do do....

This statement "This point to poinder could possibly apply to EA, for those that have said there was at least one documented kaboom from an EA round years back. It would seem quite illogical and irresponsible to continue on from that experience without making responsible changes. Even more so if you're a small business, family owned/operated, with a family. Because irresponsibility could result in a very negative life change." tells me that you (all of you - we - us - our) are not so open minded as you should be and your testing methology is tainted due to an unrecognized positive attitude towards EA or a unrecognized enamored feeling towards their ammunition line.

[SONYtec]

fd57, you keep refering to "we," "us," "our."

Who besides YOU are you refering too???

Maybe your other personalities???

WE (the folks on this forum), would like to know.

So I got this in a PM, why you just didn't post it in the forum???

Hi SONYtec

"We" is used because there is a group of us who perform firearms ballistics testing and forensics. Anytime two or more of us concur we opt for "we", and anytime it's just one voice it's an "I".

Cheers!

[fd57]

Didn't "PM" stand for "private message"?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Ignoring the blatant disregard to Internet protocol, it appears you have your answer, SONYtec.

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Didn't "PM" stand for "private message"?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Ignoring the blatant disregard to Internet protocol, it appears you have your answer, SONYtec.

I don't know if there is such as thing as "internet protocol" (excluding network protocol) but FD is correct, PM does stand for Private Messaging. As a moderator I must re-inforce that when information is shared privately, it should remain so, unless the original author allows the public dissemination of this information.

In some ways I am glad it is in the open because it lends weight and credibility to the discussion at hand.

[SONYtec]

I didn't ask the question in open forum, to get an answer in PM.

What are you hiding???

Was a real TOP SECRET ANSWER!!!


Still didn't really answer the question. I mean, appearently you so well known in the industry, along with your "group."

You fail to provide any proof of what you post.

Your actions are that of a Troll.