ABCs of doing an NFA TRUST

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Thread: ABCs of doing an NFA TRUST

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    ABCs of doing an NFA TRUST

    UPDATE: The Idiot in the oval office has just made an executive order on NFA trusts. You might want to go the old fashioned route now!!


    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/9084


    FIRST OFF> This is not legal advice. You are encouraged to seek the advice of a properly licensed attorney in your area!!

    These are just examples of how others have done it. Not only do you have to be aware of federal laws, each state has different laws.

    I used this site for my trust and all has gone well
    http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy...O_signoff.html

    This is the best concise article I have found on how to setup a trust.

    http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/vie...p?f=46&t=27469

    ALL credit goes to Member "X" on the ak froum.


    Steps for Buying a NFA Weapon using the Revocable Living Trust method


    **Note:
    - Use the following information at your own risk.
    - There is no substitute for consulting a lawyer first.
    - Instructions are tailored for Georgia.
    - Laws in your State may vary.
    - These steps can be applied to the purchase of NFA weapons (TitleII/Class3).
    - NFA weapons are: machine guns, silencers, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, destructive devices and "any other weapons".


    Primary reasons for using the Revocable Living Trust:
    1. No Fingerprint Cards needed.
    2. No Passport Photos needed.
    3. No Chief Law Enforcement Officer Signoff needed.
    4. "Can" reduce time it takes to get your NFA item


    Other reasons:
    1. List other people on the Trust, such as a spouse or other family member, so that they can have access to the NFA item.
    2. Items in the Trust are easily passed to beneficiaries upon your death. Probate court is avoided.


    -----------------------
    1.) Create a Revocable Living Trust.
    ***Use the following instructions at your own risk! Laws in each state can vary. It may be advisable for you to seek legal counsel to properly setup a Living Trust.
    - A popular way to create your own Trust is to use a software program like Quicken WillMaker
    - Follow the very easy tutorial and create a Basic Living Trust
    - The completed Trust is called the Declaration of Trust
    - The Declaration of Trust will include a property form (Schedule A)
    - You must add at least one item to the property form. I entered one dollar ($1).
    - The property form can be edited at anytime. No need to edit/re-notarize the Trust.
    - I will edit and add NFA items to the property form after the rifle is in my possession
    - Print both the 'Declaration of Trust' and the 'Certification of Trust'
    - Get both documents notarized
    - A local notary should only cost about $5 (try a local UPS store)
    - Make copies of both the Declaration and Certification of Trust
    - Store original notarized documents in a safe place


    2.) Buy NFA weapon.
    - If item is located at an out-of-state dealer then proceed to step 3, otherwise skip to step 7


    3.) Find a local FFL/SOT Dealer to accept the transfer.
    - There will be a transfer charge.
    - Typical fees range from $50-$100 for Class 3 transfers


    4.) Provide out-of-state dealer with copy of local dealer’s FFL/SOT License and other contact info.
    - Typically, the local dealer will fax the license to the out-of-state dealer


    5.) Out-of-state dealer submits a Form 3 to the BATF.
    - Before NFA item can be shipped to your local dealer a Form 3 must be filed
    - A Form 3 transfers ownership of the item to your local dealer
    - Item will be shipped to local dealer after Form 3 is approved
    - Times can vary, but it may take approximately 30 days for the Form 3 to be returned


    6.) NFA item is shipped to your local dealer.
    - Local FFL dealer calls to inform you the rifle has arrived


    7.) Prepare Paperwork.
    - Your local dealer should be able to provide the paperwork and help fill it out
    - However, I advise filling out the forms yourself
    - You can have the dealer review your completed forms and sign where appropriate


    8.) Fill out Certificate of Compliance (Citizenship Form).
    - Found here: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf

    Box 1 - XYZ Revocable Living Trust
    Box 2 - My LastName, My FirstName, My MiddleInitial
    Box 3 - USA
    Box 7 - My Signature and Date


    9.) Fill out the Form 4.

    - Form must be printed double-sided
    - Two copies will be needed
    - If you are able to obtain a copy of the Form 3 (step 5 above) it will contain all the info you will need to properly complete the Form 4


    Here are the boxes on the Form 4. I have provided some sample answers.

    Box 1 – $200
    Box 2a – XYZ Revocable Living Trust, My Residential Address
    Box 2b – My County
    Box 3a – Gun shop name and address
    Box 3b – Gun shop phone number
    Box 4a – Manufacturer name/address (ex. In Range, 1048 Eagle View Dr., Kodak TN 37764)
    Box 4b – Type of firearm (ex. Short Bbl Rifle)
    Box 4c – Caliber (ex. 5.45x39mm)
    Box 4d – Enter exactly the model engraved on the receive (ex. NDS2SF)
    Box 4e – Barrel length (ex. 8")
    Box 4f – Overall length (ex. 30")
    Box 4g – Enter exactly the serial # engraved on the receiver (ex. 345678AK)
    Box 7 – (ex. 123456 01 8A 98765)
    Box 8a – (ex. 22-3456789)
    Box 8b – 3
    Box 9 - Circle 'I Do'
    Box 10 – (Dealer signature)
    Box 11 – (Dealer name)
    Box 12 – (date)
    Box 13a thru e – answer ‘NO’ for all
    Box 15 – XYZ Revocable Living Trust / All Lawful Purposes / My Signature (Grantor and Trustee) / Date


    10.) Take completed paperwork to local dealer.
    - Dealer will need to sign both copies of the Form 4
    - Dealer can review the paperwork if needed


    11.) Mail Paperwork to BATF.
    - submit Form 4 (two copies, both printed doubled-sided)
    - submit copy of the Declaration of Trust and the Schedule A from your Living Trust (Do not submit the original notarized document)
    - [*Note: it was previously acceptable to submit only the Certification of Trust. However, the BATF now requires the Declaration of Trust and Schedule A.]
    - submit Certificate of Compliance (aka: Citizenship Form) (only one copy required)
    - submit check or money order for $200 (payable to BATFE)


    12.) Approved Form 4 will be returned to the dealer
    - Dealer will call you when it arrives
    - Times can vary, but it may take approximately 90-120 days


    13.) Return to local dealer and fill out Form 4473 as an individual.
    - This is the usual form to fill out when purchasing any firearm


    14.) Take possession of your new toy!


    15.) Add NFA weapon to your Living Trust
    - Add to Property Page (Schedule A)
    - Remember, the NFA item belongs to the Living Trust
    - You have legal access to the NFA item because you are the Grantor and Trustee


    16.) Make a copy of your approved Form 4
    - File away the Form 4 with your Living Trust documents
    - Keep a copy of the Form 4 with the NFA weapon at all times
    Last edited by MP_OHIO; 10-27-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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  2. #2
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    TIPS SECTION

    1.) DO NOT PUT YOUR NFA ITEMS IN SCHEDULE A UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR TAX STAMP AND POSSESSION OF THEM!!

    2.) It is best to keep your trust only for NFA ITMES. Make another trust for your other itmes.

    3.) Remember your trust name will have to be put on some of your NFA ITEMS so don't make it too long, or too corny!!







    I did find this on another site:
    don't forget your Sceduel A and DO NOT put the NFA in to your sehduel A untill its home in your safe and the stamp is as well ( and any other local forms are filled out)

    i even make a transfer sheet for my trust on my own accord along side the normal state/county tranfer paperwork (and atf paper work)


    and this:
    No amendments needed.

    Just send in a copy of hte schedule A WITHOUT the newest items on it. They cannot be put into the trust until they have been transferred to the trust which cannot happen until the transfer has been approved by the ATF.
    Last edited by MP_OHIO; 04-09-2012 at 12:43 PM.
    HAPPY PLANET and farmerted thanked this.
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    Senior Member ajfb004's Avatar
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    thats great .... all i did was the trust though . The shop I use prepared everything else once i provided the notarized trust to them and all I needed to do is sign and provide the check to BATFE.
    A J Ferrell
    Spring TX
    SCAR 16s.

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    Senior Member acmeraptor's Avatar
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    Do NOT modify the original approved form in any way. No laminating or anything. You can laminate the copies, you can even microprint copies if you like so long as any official asking for it can read the print or otherwise verify legality.

    Get a fire-proof safe or a safety deposit box at a reputable bank for the original document.
    roaddog359 and bwhiz thanked this.
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    Senior Member SeahawkDriver-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP_OHIO View Post

    15.) Add NFA weapon to your Living Trust
    - Add to Property Page (Schedule A)
    - Remember, the NFA item belongs to the Living Trust
    - You have legal access to the NFA item because you are the Grantor and Trustee

    Hey thanks for the post, can you eleborate a little on Number 15. Prior to setting up a RLT, I had 5 tax stamps for various SBR's and suppressors, I did it "the hard way" because I had decent LEO's that would actually sign Form 4's in less than 48 hours down in the great state of Florida. But.. its a PITA to move them around, and no one else is allowed within like 16 miles of the legal 'blast zone' when I pull them out of the safe... its a legal nightmere even though I own them completely legally. So I set up a RLT on my most recent purchase.

    I would imagine that you would have to NOTIFY the BATFE if you are transferring personally-owned CLIII/NFA into a RLT. How do you avoid having to do another tax stamp?

    How about 5320.20? If the NFA/CLIII firearms (suppressors excluded) move across state lines, are 5320.20's required if the weapons are in a RLT vice your personal possession?

    From what it sounds like, all I have to do is list my previously-owned SBRs and suppressors on Schedule-A, and *POOF*, they are now property of the RLT and not me.
    Last edited by SeahawkDriver-R; 04-28-2012 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeahawkDriver-R View Post
    How do you avoid having to do another tax stamp?
    You don't. Another transfer and tax stamp for each item.


    Quote Originally Posted by SeahawkDriver-R View Post
    How about 5320.20? If the NFA/CLIII firearms (suppressors excluded) move across state lines, are 5320.20's required if the weapons are in a RLT vice your personal possession?
    Yes, except for suppressors and AOW's.


    Quote Originally Posted by SeahawkDriver-R View Post
    From what it sounds like, all I have to do is list my previously-owned SBRs and suppressors on Schedule-A, and *POOF*, they are now property of the RLT and not me.
    Nope. You have to go through the whole ATF process again. Forms for each item and another $200 for each.

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    Senior Member SeahawkDriver-R's Avatar
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    Sorry.

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    Yep, as usual JHS is correct You are transfering the items out of your name and into a trust so it will cost you $200 each for a new stamp.

    I use a trust up here in Ohio because I live in a small town with nosey people. They would probably think I am a Hitman if they knew what I owned... "out of site, out of mind" is my philosophy And as always, I like to keep under the radar.
    lefthanded7 thanked this.
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    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, its learning how to dance in the rain.
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    You see in this world there's two kinds of people my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig?

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    Well, I am now on the road to sbring my PS90 and make my own trust. Been doing alot of reading and finding trusts are 1 sided. Do it yourself or the lawyers saying don't do it, see us. Why is there no kindred soul nfa lawyer that just says, just do this, etc (minus money motivation). Been a few bumps per nfa lawyers with trust issues and batf. So have to ask, what are they or what was heard...

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