PS90 SBR Paperwork Step-By-Step - Page 2

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Thread: PS90 SBR Paperwork Step-By-Step

  1. #11
    Senior Member workingman1976's Avatar
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    no 4f is the over all length my question is the step by step says xx.x" so is that the correct answer or do i use the measurements for the actual p-90? I mean I need to know before this am I am meeting up with my chief of police so people that know the answer answer it please


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    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    no 4f is the over all length my question is the step by step says xx.x" so is that the correct answer or do i use the measurements for the actual p-90? I mean I need to know before this am I am meeting up with my chief of police so people that know the answer answer it please
    OK - you have confused me here.

    Are we talking about the ATF F1 (5320.1)
    Are we talking about the ATF F5 (5320.5)
    Are we talking about the ATF F4 (5320.4)

    I think that you are confusing government speak instructions. If the instructions say - enter the overall lenght of the firearm xx.x then I think that this means xx.x is the actual (in numbers) measurement of the firearm, such as 10.4 or whatever the length is numerically, carried to one decimal place.

    DO NOT enter XX.X as your answer for 4f of your form or it will be refused.

    If this is not what you mean then I can not help you further.

  3. #13
    Senior Member workingman1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    ok well that doesnt answer the question i asked thanks though but my question is do i put xx.x" in section 4f or something else?
    so once again the question is asked do u put xx.x" in for the form 1 section 4f or do i put the length of a actual p-90 in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    ok well that doesnt answer the question i asked thanks though but my question is do i put xx.x" in section 4f or something else?
    so once again the question is asked do u put xx.x" in for the form 1 section 4f or do i put the length of a actual p-90 in?
    See the picture of the Form 1:



    See Item 4f: "Overall" means OVERALL LENGTH OF YOUR FIREARM IN INCHES TO 1 DECIMAL POINT that IT WILL BE after the modification IS DONE.

    If you have a PS90 and are filling out the Form 1 to make your rifle a PS90 Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) then you need to put the length in numbers of WHAT the total length of the rifle WILL BE after the barrel is CUT.

    So in this case, you can use the length of the P90 from any source that you can find or measure your current PS90 from the STOCK to the front of the rifle (minus the barrel) and then add 1.5 inches.

    For clarification: Cutting the barrel on a PS90 to make it a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) doen NOT change the name to a P90. A P90 is a full automatic rifle that only law enforcement, government agencies (state and federal), and Class III Firearms Dealers can own legally in the United States. (There may be other exceptions - there always are, but to you and me, it would be illegal).

    And by the way, what Estevez said!

  6. #15
    Senior Member workingman1976's Avatar
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    see that is all i needed to know the exact answer not a nice picture with crayon on it The correct answer is 19 11/16"

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    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    see that is all i needed to know the exact answer not a nice picture with crayon on it The correct answer is 19 11/16"
    Its not a crayon, its paint

    Also, do not put 19 11/16, put 19.7 (the ole xx.x thing). It probably would not make a difference but it could cause delays in the processing of the form.

    Too tired. Hope all goes well with the CLEO. Mine here won't do it, nor will anyone else that can (Judge with arresting powers, DA with arresting powers, or a LEO that is designated by the CLEO to sign the forms). Hell, my CLEO would not even answer the question as to WHY he would not do it. All I ever got from his mouthpiece was 'we don't do that".

    That is why I suggested an LLC. You can avoid the hassel of the CLEO signature, pictures, fingerprints, letter of justification to the ATF and it offers a level of protection if you ever get sued due to a mishap. Your LLC's assets (if any) are free game but your personal assets are not.

    As an example, all my carpentry equipment belongs to the LLC. Joe Blow, one of my employees places a saw horse on the back of a vehicle but doesn't tie it down (won't be an employee for long). Sawhorse falls off, tumbles a couple of times, separates and goes though the windshield of the vehicle following him. Unfortunately, said driver of the vehicle is severly maimed or even killed. Because the sawhorse is owned by the LLC, only the LLC's assets are open should the LLC be sued. My assets are protected because an LLC is a "Legal Entity unto Itself".

    You should look into it as it can save you bunches of time and effort when it comes to dealing legally with other entities. When it comes to the Form 1 or 4, all I do is sign and date the form as I am the legal signatory for the LLC. Attach a copy of the LLC paperwork and I'm done. No waiting for the FBI to run fingerprints which takes anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteves
    Quote Originally Posted by workingman1976
    see that is all i needed to know the exact answer not a nice picture with crayon on it The correct answer is 19 11/16"
    In some (many) cases 19.7 is probably the correct value. In others (e.g. different flash hiders, no flash hider, buttpad extension, etc) the correct value will be different.
    This bring up an interesting point?

    If you submit the Form1 and get it approved, do the modifications, then some time in the future decide to change the flash hinder or extend the butt of the rifle, would that require you to notify the ATF that the OAL has changed?

    I think that I will ask my local ATF guy when I see/call him next.

  9. #18
    Senior Member workingman1976's Avatar
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    i have no idea on that one would they be that anal about it?

  10. #19
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    They are not usually anal about it but you can file and amendment to you form stating the new O.A.L. if you have concerns I did it with my form 4 M16 when I changed the bbl even though its an MG and not necessary. I had a local leo view my forms once while we were shooting and pointed out the the form said 20'' bbl and I had an 11.5'' on it. SBR's are a little different as bbl length and OAL are kinda set in stone but can be amended
    or even removed from the registry if taken back to thier non NFA configuration
    say hello to my little friend

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    OR;

    Get yourself incorporated, open an LLC, or a Trust and forget about the CLEO or any other assholes that won't sign your Form 1 or Form 4.

    You won't need photos, fingerprints, or a letter to the ATF as to why you want it, need it, or whatever.

    Much easier as the FBI does not have to do the fingerprint check and it will save up to 3 months on the paperwork.

    Last time I did a Form 4, mailed it on 3 Jul and was approved on 30 Jul.
    OK, so I'm new to this forum. I have been reading through this thread with interest. I'm looking to purchase a PS90, however I want the short barrel. That leads me here. I'm very interested in learning more about creating an LLC to simplify the SBR licensing process. The fact is, I've been thinking about creating an LLC for a while now with the idea of eventually obtaining a Type 01 FFL. However, I digress. Can you give me more information on this? Why is it that an LLC bypasses the CLEO, fingerprints, etc., and are there any specifics that need to be included when creating an LLC? Thanks in advance!

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