Since location (urban vs rural) was brought up, I do live in a rural area, but I live "in town" in an apartment complex. I live in the Rocky Mountains and I frequent the National Forests for Recreation: Hiking, Camping, Elk Hunting, etc. I do plan on purchasing a small plot of rural land here in Colorado, with quick access to National Forest. Although I love my Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 for hunting, I am throwing around the idea of bringing this SCAR 17 out for a hunt once I gain more confidence and proficiency.
Thanks a lot for the input so far, gents. But please, by all means, keep the info coming!
I own an ELCAN 1-4x. It actually has no home right now, I sold the rifle it sat on and its a 5.56 reticle, so its kind of akwardly on top of an H&K UMP until I find a 5.56 worthy of it.
Its a great optic, no doubt, but it has serious drawbacks.
On top of CQ-type guns and carbines, I run simple reflex optics, and in my experience, the smaller and simpler, the better. A reflex optic in close quarters is about TWICE as fast as trying to find an object through that ELCAN, literally. Remember 1x is exactly that, 1x, it is NOT flat glass, so there is eye-relief required. With flat-glass reflex, there is no eye relief, you see a zero-paralax dot no matter the eye relief or subsequent cheek-weld. As such, the ELCAN just isn't nearly as good... its OK, if you are willing to put up with having perfect cheek weld going around corners and using your weak-hand to maneuver obstacles while temporarily losing that dot... which happens A LOT in the real world, and not in the world of gear-heads that admire safe queens, or the casual types that only shoot from cushy wooden benches on sunny days at their local range.
In my humble opinion the ELCAN is a great optic for the full-barreled SCAR-17. A .308 was never meant for close-quarters, but the 1x or 1.5x will work great at "short range", which would be from 10yards and out. If you really want somehing for CQ on a SCAR, then I'd put a simple off-set rail for a RMR or DeltaPoint in front of the Elcan, or else some offset IRon sights. A simple twist of the rifle counter clockwise (which takes a lot less time than throwing that lever), and you're on target in a tight situation.
I can't offer an opinion on the 1-4 vs 1.5-6, as I don't own the latter, but i will say that if you plan on putting a Bipod on the SCAR 17, then get the 1.5-6x. The bipod and the higher magnification will go hand in hand to really reach-out with the range. But if you want a more verisile medium-range shooter thats decent out to 600 yards, go with the 1-4, its lighter and smaller. Remember, short-range doesn't mean CQ.. you'll transition from the 4x to 1x inside of 100 yards.
You're right. I run a Meprolight reflex sight on my AUG and it can't be beat for fast acquisition even with a sloppy cheek weld.
But it sucks at anything past 100 yards. You could run a magnifier, but I have never been a fan of that whole setup, it gets pretty busy on a rifle with an optic, magnifier and the proper swing mount system.
I like the Elcan because it's a jack of all trades optic, it's good at everything, but it doesn't really excel at any one thing.
Agreed Boba, jack of all, master of none is a good way to describe the ELCAN. I've tried the various magnifiers and the one I like best is the Eotech MPO system. Its co-witness and perfectly matched right out of the box, and it has quick-throw levers on both the optic AND the magnifier so it takes me less than 5 seconds to completely take off the whole optical system and transition to iron sights. With a little practice, I think the Eotech MPO system is actually faster than the ELCAN's throw lever, as the Eotech is spring-loaded so its about as fast as just pushing a button, or slapping it down. I'd say on average about twice as fast as the 1-4x transition on the Eotech for the average user.
But I'm a believer in finding the right optic for the right weapon, and you have to define the philosophy of use of a weapon before you can do anything else. I only run reflex optics on weapons that MUST PERFORM in CQ or short range situations, thus I keep them on my short-barrels and sub-guns that shoot pistol calibers. A full-length barrel 5.56 or a .308 battle rifle, in my opinion, just isn't the right flavor for reflex optics, even with their little 3x magnifiers. Here's the pic I posted the other day of the Eotech on my Sig SBR.
Last edited by SeahawkDriver-R; 04-05-2012 at 08:02 AM.
Seahawkdriver-r: Your posts here are very much appreciated. Yours is probably the first post I've seen (been researching this quite a bit) where someone actually reviews an Elcan Specter (and gives thoughts on a 1.5x magnification) in terms of short range and CQB. I especially appreciate your blunt comments about "real world" application. Real world solutions are the want to set up my SCAR, so that aspect of your initial post is greatly appreciated.
My thoughts as of right now- go with the 1.5x - 6x Elcan to take advantage of the 17's range and add a Leupold delta point on an offset (1 o'clock) mount in front for "bad breath" ranges and up. The 1.2 oz of a Daniel Defense Offset mount and 0.6 oz of a Leupold Deltapoint = 1.8 oz seems negligible.
As much as I like optics, I absoutely hate having to turn them on, set them up, flip up the lense covers, etc etc.... the more guns I"ve bought and used, the more minimalist I've become. That Sig up there is about as decked-out as I ever want to be on a weapon. Less is better for a lot of practical reasons. It might not look as good to the mall ninjas that have 50lbs worth of accessories on the weapon, but speed on target is what wins the day.
I think an offset DeltaPoint is the BEST setup; however, its also the most expensive, and its going to be rather heavy too. Best of luck.
I've got all the weights of my actual and theoretical items in an excel spreadsheet:
126.56 oz - SCAR 17 (got that weight off the FN website - not sure if that includes empty magazine)
6.00 oz - Grip Pod
25.6 oz - 20 rds in a magazine
24.69 oz - Elcan 1.5x-6x
1.20 oz - Daniel Defense Offset Rail
0.60 oz - Leupold DeltaPoint
= 184.65 oz = 11.54 lbs total. My original goal was to keep it under 12 lbs. That's just under 10 lbs without a loaded Magazine.