Lets toss some ideas into the tactical trashcan

[dzhitshard]

I haven't gone to any classes yet, just looking around at different websites. So what kind of training should I do? "Street Combat"? whatever that is. If I do happen to get in a gunfight it's probably going to last less than 6 seconds tops. Seems to me the best training is doing it myself at home going through different situations.

Excuse the resurrection of a stale thread but has your opinion changed any on this subject?

Gun enthusiasts as a whole are some strange people but I guess no more so than 4x4 builders who could make due with an off the lot S10 to go fishing or pull a mower trailer.

Too many gun enthusiasts hide behind the subjective & fragile vail of "personal preference" in techniques, equipment etc when talking on the subject of deadly force encounters.

As I see it there are 3 objective measurements that blow that BS out of the water in the subject of deadly force encounters. Time, Accuracy, Repeatability.

As a young buck my first squad leader paraphrased life at arms to me: Every young man naturally thinks he can do 3 things, fight, Fornicate, & drive. Fact is you don't know nothing about any of them until someone teaches you." [that's a much more cleaned up version that lost some of its' brilliance but I doubt SSG Zak's language would be a good fit here]

From my perspective there are 3 major types of training & a man won't do well in a struggle without infusing them all.


Mindset conditioning (which is what I believe at least partially is what you described by "doing it alone at home") "#*&D, this could happen so how might I fix this problem?

Weapons manipulation. How to run a gun IE draw/present, align the sights, manage recoil, follow up, reload, immediate action, shoot from cover, get into asymmetric positions etc.

Tactical implementation. IE gunfighting training. The training on how, why, & when to implement all the above in deadly force encounters.



Yes, if one finds themselves in a gunfight it could last "only" 6 seconds. I'd advise against letting happenstance and raw lady luck choose if those 6 seconds are my last on this Earth.

Training shouldn't be about "If I have to train, I'll do it with Joe Jim or Earl" but more along the lines of I'm going to train with xyz trainer to establish a FOUNDATION for core competency of ABC tasks.

Hopefully this will help others who have similar questions of Why some people should look at getting various training.

[okwire]

IMHO, to be taken with a grain of salt....

I like Fobus holsters...yes one can rip the holster from its paddle...okay?? If I wanted a retention holster, I would've bought a retention holster.

Fobus fills a niche for off duty cops who are purposely avoiding a hand-to-hand confrontation, or any other type of confrontation, but can still have speedy access to their pistol should they find themselves in the midst of one. This is the limit of the Fobus' usefulness. Obviously for uniformed duty as a peace officer, another holster is appropriate. And for non-uniformed duty, still another holster is appropriate. The difference is....whilst on duty, one may be compelled to become enbroiled in a fight where enhanced sturdiness and retention capability of a holster is necessary. If not on duty...avoidance is always a good option.

I've only casually heard of the speed rock or whatever it's called. But training to shoot from the hip at those who have very recently been promoted to the position of target is not a bad idea. Some confrontations start and occur at very close distances....say, less than arms' reach. Learning to shoot pistol from any postion is probably not a bad idea, though training to is a bit problematic.

In any event, "tactics" is a quantifiable term (So why not do so?) and they will change depending on venue and circumstances. For instance....there are tactics I learned in the military that do not apply to peace officers, although I have modified or abstracted some of these tactics for professional use as a peace officer. And...there are tactics I use almost everyday as a peace officer that I would in no way even consider for use in combat.

[Tyler Durden]

Glad I conducted some updated research before commenting on Castle/CAR...not gonna speak ill of the dead...apparently he passed away a few months ago from cancer...

[buski]

[quote]Are any of these so called "defensive"/"combat" courses really necessary? It seems like what it all boils down to when you shell out more than $500 and blow through 500+ rounds of ammo is a IDPA/USPSA course! And its being taught everywhere! IMO, the only thing you need to know is "where" you are, your "surroundings", extra targets, I mean civilians/non-combatants, cover and concealment, and where the threat(s) are located and did your dumb a$$ bring enough ammo or did you show up with only what's in you handgun.

Concur.

IDPA, USPSA, Steel challenge, 3-gun, GSSF, etc...you can talk w/watch a Master rated shooter & learn to shoot relatively cheap.

Though, there are additional skills, that I wouldn't minimize, that 1 learns over a period of time when applying those shooting skills against an adversary(s); trial & error, if you will. I don't believe it very likey, that 1 would pick them up, in a 2-day course.

Good shooting

[buski]

..like, learning how to make a "quote" (HA).

It's all trial & error.

Good shooting

[SgtStrykerUSMC43]

I just blindly shoot everything... then evaluate after I've run out of ammo.



For visual reference...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMxGFco57Y

This is good too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o0Co4kbRZo

[Ferris2son]

The best training video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7hTvLfifb4

[buski]

USPSA: emphasis on time/breaking down a stage & foot work/placement, understanding/applying what is "needed" to win for shot placement.

IDPA: Shot placement/breaking down a stage & time.

Steel challenge: shot placement & time..footwork on selected stages.

GSSF: shot placement, time.

3-gun: shotgun loading.

ALOT to be learned, from the Masters in these competitions.

Good shooting

[newguy31]

I got some of the magpul videos and I believe the quality of instruction is just about as good as it gets. I run all their technique courses and can tell it has improved my shooting defensively or just shooting better altogether. If you have not seen the videos check em out!

[artranscience]

This may be controversial, but...

Transitioning from rifle to pistol when the mag goes empty (instead of reloading).

::::::

Time yourself (your shots) transitioning; now time yourself reloading instead and reengaging. Surprised??? Now check to see which one was more accurate. Mind changed yet???

::::::

If you have a complex malfunction, yes, transition; if you are fully out of rifle ammo, yes, transition. Have another magazine? Put it in the rifle!