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Thread: Ohio and Michigan Stay At Home Protests

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESTER View Post
    ...... I'm just not seeing people waiting to get home! too start drinking their Frozen Daiquiris!

    Bars petition for executive order allowing carry-out cocktails, to-go alcohol

    Owners of almost 30 bars and hospitality groups around Michigan have joined forces to petition Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and the Michigan Liquor Control Commission to allow the temporary sale of carry-out cocktails and other drinks.
    That was one of the First things the Governor of Texas did!
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Milspec's Avatar
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    Michigan Gov. Ray Finkle.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Alpha-17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Muddy View Post
    Besides the EO on church gatherings how much stricter is Kansas vs Mo. Other than eateries doing take out only and Barbers and Hairstylists being closed, life in my neck of the woods is pretty much normal.
    The EO (backed up by the leftist KS Supreme Court) is the big one. I'm not familiar with how Missouri is handling it, but we're a far cry from "business as usual" with mandatory closings of certain businesses like craft stores, and one of the first states to shut down schools for the rest of the year. Here's the official PDFs on the subject, not sure how they compare with what you're dealing with.
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...-PDF---4-11-20
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...-PDF---3-29-20
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...DF---4--11-20-

    I also live in a major college town, so the shut down is really having an impact on us locally. We're not as bad as Vermont, but I think the Governor is going a lot further than most Kansans are willing to accept.

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  5. #14
    Senior Member dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESTER View Post
    ...... I'm just not seeing people waiting to get home! too start drinking their Frozen Daiquiris!

    Bars petition for executive order allowing carry-out cocktails, to-go alcohol

    Owners of almost 30 bars and hospitality groups around Michigan have joined forces to petition Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and the Michigan Liquor Control Commission to allow the temporary sale of carry-out cocktails and other drinks.

    CO did this right away...
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  6. #15
    Senior Member SCAR'd Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dank View Post
    CO did this right away...
    And the POT SHOPS are still open !!!
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCAR'd Mike View Post
    And the POT SHOPS are still open !!!
    That’s the main essential for most people these days! lmfao!!!!
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  8. #17
    Senior Member dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCAR'd Mike View Post
    And the POT SHOPS are still open !!!
    I wonder why?
    Medical and recreational cannabis sales hit a record $1.75 billion in 2019, up 13% from 2018, according to data from the Department of Revenue's Marijuana Enforcement Division. Marijuana tax collections also hit an all-time high, at more than $302 million in 2019.Feb 18, 2020
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  9. #18
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    Medical and recreational cannabis sales hit a record $1.75 billion in 2019, up 13% from 2018, according to data from the Department of Revenue's Marijuana Enforcement Division. Marijuana tax collections also hit an all-time high, at more than $302 million in 2019.Feb 18, 2020

    You think that money is the High they are talking about here?
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  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    The EO (backed up by the leftist KS Supreme Court) is the big one. I'm not familiar with how Missouri is handling it, but we're a far cry from "business as usual" with mandatory closings of certain businesses like craft stores, and one of the first states to shut down schools for the rest of the year. Here's the official PDFs on the subject, not sure how they compare with what you're dealing with.
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...-PDF---4-11-20
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...-PDF---3-29-20
    https://www.coronavirus.kdheks.gov/D...DF---4--11-20-

    I also live in a major college town, so the shut down is really having an impact on us locally. We're not as bad as Vermont, but I think the Governor is going a lot further than most Kansans are willing to accept.
    “Engaging in an outdoor activity” does not include: "Joyriding, cruising, or parades unless all occupants of the vehicle reside in the same residence and vehicles do not stop and congregate." If I understand this right, worshipers can't even meet in the church parking lot to hear a sermon on the radio, much like what was done during Easter in many of the churches in my
    County? Dear God can Kansans at least take a walk in the park?
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  11. #20
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    This is a math and attention span problem.

    There is obviously a lag in the system, caused by 'the infection cycle', where any executive order takes about 3 weeks before you can see the effect. At the time of the order going in place, there are people who are already infected, but not yet showing symptoms, so they have been infecting others. From the day the EO takes place and they reduce/stop the infection of others, there is still the time where all the asymptomatic people out there need to progress to being sick, where the curves are going to keep going up.

    For perspective, New York City gave the stay at home order on 3/20. New cases (and hospitalizations, and deaths) continued to rise, and didn't start to decline until 4/07, 3 weeks later. If you look at data on a state level, it might be longer, because local hot spots get averaged out with rural areas.

    Since NYC was the first time ever that we had social distancing, the government did not know the infection cycle was 3 weeks long, and despite all logic saying that social distancing would help, it had never been tested before, so no one knew how much it would help.

    So I have some sympathy for the government, who were sweating bullets waiting to see if/when it would kick in, and while they were waiting, they started throwing in every tool they had, going from just schools, to public celebrations, to non-essential business, to church services, to outdoor activities, in a desperate attempt to stop this thing, and it kept growing because of the pocket of infected people who had not developed symptoms yet. It's tough to say they over-reacted, because every little bit helps, and over-reaction is not as bad as under-reaction, because it this thing gets to runaway mode and the hospitals get overwhelmed, death rates will spike.

    All of this is done with a public who have the attention span of a teenager. In today's lifestyle of instant gratification, we want to see results right away. So a 3 week time lag to see results from staying at home is beyond our capacity, both from a point of attention span, and also economics for some people who live paycheck to paycheck.

    Good news is that it seems social distancing is working, and now that we know it is a 3 week lag, people know what to look for and when to expect results.

    Bad news is that as we get bored of this and start relaxing, the numbers are going to keep dropping, because the lag works both ways, and we are likely to get over-confident that we got this. Then in 3 weeks, we'll get another spike.

    I remember in my System Dynamics class in engineering, we studied feedback loops to control a system. So if I design a cruise control for the car, it looks at the speedometer, and decides do I add power or subtract power to get to my setting, or am I way off, so do I add a lot of power ... there are several factors that change the stability of that system. Gain is one. If I am 5 mph low, do I tap the accelerator, or mash it? Depends on engine power. In a high power engine, you just tap, in a low power engine, you mash. If you mash in a high power engine, you will overcorrect and be going too fast, then if you back off too much, you are going too slow, so you mash it again. This system can become unstable, where each swing produces a bigger error, so you overcorrect even more next time. You can plot this out in what is called a root-locus diagram.

    Another good way to get a system unstable is to introduce a time delay into the feedback. Even a low power engine, if you are low, you accelerate. If the speedometer has a delay, the system accelerates, then looks at the speedometer and sees that nothing changed, you are still too low, so you accelerate a little more, and still nothing happens, so you really nail the gas pedal. Then, the increase in speed from the first blip finally registers and you ease off. Then the second blip registers, and now you are going too fast, so you really ease off, then the nailing it, and you pull WAY back, but by now you figure out you are going too slow, and the cycle starts over. So a time delay can cause you to over correct, and the output starts to cycle between over correcting and under correcting, with each swing getting bigger and bigger.

    Hopefully, the government has sufficient experts to see this coming, but we might have over corrected on the clamp-down, so we will see a big drop in cases 3 weeks later, then I hope we don't over-do it on relaxing, because we are bored of this isolation thing, and we are not seeing results so we are frustrated, then after we start resisting, the numbers are so low that we think we got this, no biggie, and then get a bigger spike in round #2 ...

    In 1918, Spanish Flu came in 3 waves. The second was the deadliest. I have not studied the epidemiological history to see if this was because of complacency, but I would not be surprised if it were. Good news is that all of this buys us extra weeks to build ventilators, produce medicines, and continue testing on a vaccine. Hang in there.

    Sorry, I'm ranting.
    Last edited by ShootingSight; 04-18-2020 at 07:53 AM.
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